S3E03 with Scott McGlothlen - The Naked Truth

In this episode of JUST DO YOU, I sit down with Scott McGlothlen — life coach, counselor, and nudist based in Denver, Colorado — to talk about authenticity, body acceptance, and what it really means to feel at home in your own skin.

Scott works with LGBTQ+ individuals and anyone curious about reconnecting with their bodies ... and themselves. Over the years, he has developed an approach that blends coaching, counseling-informed practices, and holistic tools — all in a consent-centered, non-sexual nudity setting designed to help people show up fully as themselves. I’ve had the privilege of experiencing his transformational work firsthand this past year and can honestly say that, for the first time in my life, I feel comfortable in my own body.

During our conversation, Scott and I explore how nudism can be a path to being present, to enhance confidence, and to build deep self-connection — especially during major life transitions. This isn’t about fixing what’s “broken.” It’s about discovering what’s already within you, shedding your armor, and allowing yourself to thrive.  We also dismantle some common myths about nudism while recreating a new conversation around the freedom of exploring it ... and the many benefits it offers. 

Whether you’re curious, new to nudism, a longtime naturist, or simply seeking deeper self-acceptance, this episode invites you to strip away shame, stop hiding, and live more authentically than ever before.  

To learn more about Scott and Beyond Bare Coaching, visit https://www.beyondbarecoaching.com

Content Note:
This episode includes discussion of non-sexual nudity, body acceptance, and wellness. No explicit sexual content is discussed.

Thank you for joining us and we can't wait to welcome you back again next week! New episodes drop every Thursday and can be found wherever you find your favorite podcasts!

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Transcript

0:02

Hello everyone, and welcome to Season Three of the Just Do You podcast. I'm Eric, Nicoll, your host, and I'm so glad you decided to join us today. Whether this is your very first time joining in on the conversation or you've been listening along since the beginning, thank you for being here. This podcast exists because of you. Your stories, your courage and your willingness to keep choosing yourself even when it's not easy. The Just Do You Podcast is a safe space for authentic, unscripted conversations that connect us, inspire us, and remind us of who we are at our core. Together we're going to explore confidence, voice, truth, and what it means to step fully into what I call the just do you sweet spot, that place where you are living honestly, intentionally and unapologetically. This new season is about growth, reflection. Possibility and community. I'll be sitting down with friends, colleagues, community leaders, and influencers who are willing to share their journeys, the wins, the challenges, and everything in between. We'll laugh. We may shed a few tears, but in the end, we're going to continue to remind one another that none of us is walking this path alone. So are you ready? Great. Let's do this. Welcome to Season Three of the Just Do You Podcast. All right everyone. Welcome to today's episode. I am really excited we've kicked off season three and as I spent the last couple weeks of December really looking to see the type of content and conversations that I wanted to have over the course of the year. One of the things that kept popping up in my head is dealing with that just do you factor and what that means. And part of my own journey this last year has really been taking a look at my relationship to my body, taking a look to maybe better the conversation I have.'cause I'm super hard on myself. And what I started to notice was how that plays into my being social, my friendships, my relationships, my being back out into the dating world. We've talked about this a lot over the last two seasons. I am a firm believer in coaching. I think having a coach is one of the most powerful things that you can do for yourself because it gets you out of your head and it gets you into a conversation and a dialogue. So I am very honored and very blessed today to have a guest on the podcast who is not only become a friend, but has been a coach of mine the past couple months. And I'm again thrilled to introduce everyone today to Scott McGlothlen. Hi, Scott. Hey, thank you so much and I'm glad to be here with you. It is so nice having you here. And as I said in that intro, we have been working together for the past couple of months and I want to just preface this by saying, obviously I agreed and approached you to speak on the podcast even though we are working together. So it was my request and a mutually agreed decision to talk about this because I think it's something that's really important. And as I've gone through this process, which we'll talk a little bit about, but it's more about you, it's been really fascinating and also, I want to say somewhat groundbreaking and very transformative to go through this process. So to give the listener a little bit of context, you are the founder of two coaching platforms. One is First Brick Coaching, which is for gay men, and the other is Beyond Bare Coaching, which is more slanted towards Nudism. Yeah, that's correct. Nudism and Nature ism. Why? I think this is an important conversation to have because you and I have been working together through Beyond Bare Coaching. And this is something that was really important to me because of my relationship to my body and my body image issues, and we're going to talk a little bit about the distinction what Nudism is, or Tism is, and what it isn't. We're going to dispel some rumors today, and we're going to set a conversation and a dialogue that I think is really going to help people navigate this maybe interest that they've had, that they haven't really been able to take action on. Does that sound like a plan? Yeah, that sounds great to me. Okay. So we'll get into what it is and what it isn't. I'd like you maybe to start there. Let us know what nudism naturalism is and what it isn't, and then we're going to take it back a little bit further. Talk a little bit about your youth and how you navigated your way to now coaching men into loving themselves and loving the body in this, what I call vessel that we've been put in. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. It does help to clarify things right off the bat because oftentimes things like nudism and nature. Do get confused with things like exhibitionism and voyeurism. Is it about that you like to be seen or that you just want to see people naked? Or how does that work? And so first I like to break it down that it really begins with intention. What is the intention behind why we are getting naked? So with Nudism or Naturism, the intention is about like experiencing our nakedness as a non-sexual and natural state of build being. And the purpose is just to be present and at ease in our own bodies. And it can be done solo and it can be done in shared spaces. Things like exhibitionism. The intention behind that more often is about arousal by being seen by others. Voyeurism is also about arousal by seeing others. And that's a key distinction that arousal points. So in Nudism, we're not going for arousal. That's not the intention. But another really interesting distinction that I like to point out to people is that with exhibitionism and voyeurism. That's also other focused. And what I mean by that is like with Exhibitionism, it's about the other person seeing us. With voyeurism, it's about our ability to see the other person. With Nudism, it's a completely other direction. It's more self-focused. So even if others are present, it's about my relationship with my body, my comfort, my ease. So while Nudism may involve like seeing others or being seen, it's not about arousal, it's about acceptance, presence, and just not hiding ourselves. Yeah. Like a hundred questions are swimming in my head and we can probably talk about this for a couple episodes. Yeah, it's been really fascinating to me because as I explained to you when I first contacted you and we talked about working together I, I've always had a very interesting relationship with my body as a gay man, as we've talked about many times throughout our coursework together, is I compare myself a lot to what I see in the community, whether it's on social media or whether it's at Pride or various, pool parties or whatever. And I didn't realize how that conversation was playing into my own fear of being, let's just say shirtless to start with in front of other people. The thought of ever getting naked in some front of somebody that wasn't a partner or a boyfriend was really. Out there for me, even though I wanted to try it, I had experiences in some travels going to nude beaches, around the world and, didn't know anybody. So it was super safe. And the first time I did it, I have to admit, I got so afraid. I didn't really, let's say, even out the tan, and I got some pretty serious burns on my backside, so but I think as I laugh about that, it was a really serious conversation, Scott. Yeah. There was this very deep ingrained monologue that I was having that I wasn't attractive. There were things about me that I didn't like. And as I shared with you when I first started working with you, I used to get up in the morning and I, the first thing I would do is I would see myself in this double, door mirror wardrobe, and without even thinking about it, I would sneer or I would say, oh God, really? That's not attractive. That's not attractive. That's not attractive. And that was a daily occurrence. And I realized, especially this last year as I've been working through some of my own journey and getting back in the dating world and enhancing my friendships and really looking to find community in a lot of different spaces of my life, right? We have different friends in different pockets, right? But I wanted to find a group of people that were really comfortable within themselves and their own bodies. And so working with you has been transformative, as I said, but also really enlightening because, and we'll share about this, I'm sure as we go along, but the conversations that we have in our head about being naked, whether we're by ourselves or at the beach, or in a social situation it's not reality. So we're going to talk a about that. Totally. We're going to, we're going to talk about that a lot. And I want our listeners to know that the reason I asked to have this conversation today is one of the things that I've noticed is that we are all very disconnected still. Yeah. And when I look for intimacy within my relationships, and I don't mean sexual intimacy, intimacy within my circle of friends, both male and female. One of the things that I think is so important is if you have that body confidence and you have that ability to feel comfortable in your body, it allows people to get in and to see you more deeply. Do you agree on that? Oh yeah, absolutely. Yeah. It's very much what you and I have talked about removing that armor. Yeah, because it really is about armor, right? Some people's armor is their cars or their homes. Other people's armor is their clothing. I know for me, I always like to look good, but I was hiding behind this armor and protecting myself from really having people see me. So we're going to talk about that today. I'd like to take my guest back to childhood for a multitude of reasons, especially when we're having conversations centered around L-G-B-T-Q and coming out. I think it's very important to tell those stories and to have people understand what our process and what our journey is. But I'd love to know a little bit about the young Scott. Where'd you grow up? Did you have siblings? And what that was like. Yeah, absolutely. So I grew up here in Denver, Colorado, so I've always lived here. I had a pretty standard home with two older sisters. But my dad worked a lot, so I was really raised by my mom and my older sisters a lot. So I had a big influence on that. It's funny when going back to my childhood, I was not a naked kid, so I wasn't one of those kids, which is really common. A lot of kids don't want to wear clothes, they just want to be free from it. I was not one of them. And my family wasn't necessarily particularly shaming about bodies either. Like both my parents were in the medical field, so bodies were pretty matter of fact, in our household, we didn't have a super religious household or anything like that. And so yeah, so like our family was comfortable stepping in and out of the shower in front of each other or something like that, but we weren't like nudist or anything. For me, where it really got precarious and where I started to develop struggles with body image was really being raised by women who also struggled with body image. They had bought into the. The social beauty standard and would constantly berate and hate themselves for whatever they could. They would say, I hate my boobs, I hate my butt, I hate my hair, I hate my lips. And it was just that over and over again. So that got really internalized for me a lot as a kid, even though it wasn't ever directed at me. But then the flip side of that, with like along the lines with a lot of L-G-B-T-Q people, I suffered severe bullying as a kid. So that did get projected at me. Like other kids really hated me as a child. I think that's'cause I was an feminine child. So there was like a couple different directions going on that internalized body negativity from the people who I really admired and looked up to. And that very real external rejection from my peers. And that just made me a really like scared and anxious kid. And I think it's a shame that we do not, spend the time with our kids whether it's at home or in school. And I think when I say at home, we have to equip the parents with the the knowledge and the ability to have conversations that might go a little deeper and might be a little bit more investigative. And we also have to equip our teachers and our schools with the ability to watch and look for signs of that bullying. We know it happens. Yeah. But are we really? Are we really teaching and setting up administrators or counselors to have those kind of conversations? Because let's face it, everyone's going to get bullied at some point in their right school career. But you and I talked about this on one of our sessions together, and I was so resonating with you when you were talking about the schoolyard bullying and the fact that your body looked a little different than others. And it might have been a little more effeminate, but you also, we talked about body structure, right? I'm six four. I had a very large rib cage. I also carried a lot of weight, and so I remember those conversations, young being really hurtful. And I want people to hear that. That's when this all starts. Oh, for sure. Yeah. That's when this starts. And so we may end up in our thirties, forties, and fifties. Looking out for a Scott McGlothlen to have a conversation about something that happened 30 years ago. 40 years ago. But I think that all starts then. So you were bullied, obviously you were raised by these women that were also do we use the word self-deprecating? Is that a appropriate, is that an okay word? Is that Yeah, totally. They were but not even in a humorous way, just really beat themselves up. Yeah. And if you think, and if you think about it, Scott, back then, not to date us, but not back then, we didn't have a lot of the pressures of social media as well. Where there is, and we talked about this as well, so much comparison. So it's one thing to be in a space where you're getting bullied by fellow students and friends, and also having that in your household. But then add on top of that, what we now have to face with our young people and even us as adults, is that comparison and that bullying that we take online and that, gosh, we take yeah. It's so much more intense. Now than what it would've been like. The conversations around bullying that are happening now are really great. And so I'm super excited about that. Like back in our day it was squashed pretty quickly. Yeah. Squashed in the sense, not that the bullying was rectified, but just any conversations around it. Now at least people are talking about it, but we have so many other forums through which we are absorbing body ideals that are messing with our heads. It's not just through traditional media like it was back then. And so there's extra layers now that I think make it even tougher. Were you also dealing back at that time, junior high school or high school with the question of sexuality or No. My body did become a really confusing place for me partly because of what you mentioned earlier about maybe feeling like we have awkward bodies. One thing for me is that my sternum, my breastbone protrudes forward. And so that was something I was also made fun of a lot growing up. And so like I already had that creating some hyperawareness of my body, but then in questioning my sexuality and what is my body like in sexuality. And one of the tricky things about growing up queer is like we don't have any role models to talk to about sexuality. So the bummer part of that is we start learning sexuality through things like porn and then that's our first impression. And we're like, oh my God, my body's not like that. And we're both delighted and excited by this thing that feels affirming. And speaks to us sexually, but it's also very confusing too because it's oh, that's what that looks like. Like I don't look like that. So that can be confusing for a kid as well. I think it's important to have conversations. It's funny that today's episode that launched today was about gay dads raising kids, and we were talking about these very conversations that, you don't realize that you have to have them until you have to have them. That's right. Yeah. Very fair. But it's interesting when I hear you say that, because I had the same situation with my body. Chest plate and stern stick out as well. And I was completely teased about that. So we shared that in common. So when you were sharing that with me, I was like, oh my gosh, that was me as well. And I hid it right behind so many other things being funny making sure that everyone liked me, making sure that I was like nice to everyone. All of those things. Yeah. The nicest guy in the world. And yeah, I was so nice to everybody. But inside I was dying. Yes. So then when we have to then deal with, like you said, the potential of our sexuality and coming out and we have all that comparison plus all of that kind of baggage of those conversations, it's a really difficult road to navigate. And I think that's so important for people to hear. I think we, we focus too much on the end result as opposed to the journey, which is why I like to talk about this. Yeah, I love that. I'm curious, when you talk about getting comfortable in your own body, what does that actually mean? Like in practice? Not in a theory, but what does that mean to be comfortable in your body? Yeah, I describe it differently than what we see a lot about it online. So a lot of what we see online is body positivity. And it's nothing against body positivity. If that works for somebody, that's great. This idea of loving our bodies. But for those of us who come from a background of hating our bodies, that can be too big of a leap sometimes to go from hating our body to loving our body. And that's where I think it gets tricky for some people. So when we talk in terms of getting comfortable with our bodies, I like to say that it may look more like just feeling at home in your body. And what that means is it could just be feeling less at war with yourself. It could just be like nervous system regulation for physique anxiety. It could be about less performance, less trying to manage our bodies and yeah, just being at home in our bodies rather than this thing of I need to be confident all the time. I need to be in love with myself all the time because for a lot of us, that's not realistic. Yeah. And I think it's also really important because, when I think about it, it's also a sensation, like when I feel good in my body, it's a sense I sense it, I can feel it because there's a softness. There is a lightness about myself. When I'm not comfortable in my body. There's a tenseness about it. There's almost a physical manifestation for me when I'm not feeling comfortable in my body. And what I would do when I would be in those places of discomfort or anxiety is that I would detach myself, right? Yeah. I would be existing outside of my body. And that might be a little woo for some people. But what I mean by that is, is that I was living outside of myself and trying to hide the body that I had and be something else other than myself. And it really wasn't until. Many years ago when I started to really do the work, when I started to look at conversations that I had about myself and number one, where did those come from? But number two, what was I actually getting out of those conversations because I was getting something out of them. And what I was getting out of it was agreement, right? Yeah. So I actually got the bullying that I was asking for by having those conversations. And so I think it's important for people to hear that, right? So it can show up in a multitude of different ways. And so when we talk about the body armor and that protectiveness and we talk about how that shows up, can you talk just a little bit about what that looks like? Like we know the conditioning probably begins at home. We gave a perfect example of that, that it begins in our childhood. But what does that mean when we talk about. Body armor, like how can that show up for people? Yeah, for sure. I think it's important to rename where it comes from. Like it comes from so many different angles that's where I think it gets confusing. Like it can come from culture and with culture typically gives us two boxes, which is either the body is shameful or the body is highly erotic. With family can model stuff like my sisters and mother did. With media, it can give us those very narrow visions of what bodies look like. And then there's that bullying and that peer rejection. So when we put on that armor, I think that armor really becomes a way to protect ourselves from fear of judgment, fear of rejection, and fear of like being too much or not enough. And this type of armor forms for a reason. Like it helps us feel safer. Like none of us with this armor are actually trying to deceive anybody. We're just trying not to get hurt. But the tricky thing about having such armor. Is that when we really lean into this armor, it also leads us to avoiding vulnerability. And earlier you mentioned this idea of intimacy and if we're not able to be vulnerable, like that's the opposite of connection and intimacy. So part of this work is asking whether that armor is still really serving us or if we have actually just locked herself into a comfort zone that's a actually holding us back. Yeah. And at some point I think we collapse everything into one conversation, and it's much more complex than that, as we have found out working together over the past couple months. Is that, yeah it's an onion and let's call it what it is. And you gotta peel back the layers of that onion. And sometimes it's stinky and sometimes it's hard to smell. But it's important to do that, right? Because it's been with us. I like to use the word unpacking. I heard that in a podcast episode. A couple, I think it was last year and it, but it really makes sense. Like I'm still unpacking conversations that I've had since I was a child. Yeah. As it relates to my body and as it relates to being gay and as it relates to many things. So this isn't just a unique conversation to our body and feeling comfortable in it, I think. I think it's, it can be widespread, right? It can be about a myriad of things, not just our bodies. Yeah. And that's what makes it so like nuanced and beautiful to work on too, is to dig in and discover what a lot of those internal messages were that we received growing up. What is still in there and what needs to be like externalized and taken looked at in a different way. Yeah. Is it difficult to navigate people through the conversation of shame? Is it so ingrained and embedded in their DNA, or is it something that is workable in your opinion to unpack that, and navigate through that shame conversation? Yeah, I think it's definitely workable, but I think it's not just a w just workable through conversation, but also workable through nervous system. So nervous system stuff is part of my work. Yeah. Because people can tell us and be like, oh yeah, like your body is fine. And we can consciously be like, yeah, there's really nothing fundamentally wrong with our body, but we still sense this intense physical anxiety, like the earlier you named physical sensations that come along with it. And that's such a beautiful example of nervous system stuff. So we logically know okay, there's nothing fundamentally wrong with me. And yet when the thought of showing our bodies is so triggering that we feel these physical symptoms, that shows that a lot of those messages are still in the nervous system. So really working with both those messages in a cognitive level and a nervous system level, I find really creates the right balance and evolving past the body image issues that we struggle with. Yeah. We're going to talk a little bit about potentially an exercise that you and I did together, or, and the homework that you gave me to regulate that nervous system, because that was one of the things that I never thought I was going to do in a coaching session.'Cause I didn't know that was something that needed to be done. So we're going to talk about that for sure. I'm curious, as we look at these conversations of shame and these conversations of body image and maybe the guilt that we feel, or the shame, what's a, if someone's suffering from that, what's a good piece of advice that you could give them to maybe start to investigate working with someone as a coach to work through that? Because I think many people are afraid of having that conversation, not only for the with themselves, but with someone else. Do you agree? Yeah, absolutely. And the idea of working with a coach or a therapist or any type of practitioner always feels really intimidating. But what I love to tell people is like coaches and therapists really actually want to hear from you. So it feels really scary. Oh, this is, this person's an expert or whatever. Am I just nobody? Why am I showing up? But to really know that actually like people are here to help and they want to help, that's why they're in this industry. So not being afraid to reach out is really huge. And you know what? It's one of those things that's also always going to be scary. Like it feels really intimidating. And that goes back to I think that what is currently a really. Popular soundbite on social media these days is that like fear is not being, not being afraid. But is being afraid and doing it anyway, right? Yeah. Yes, a hundred percent. Say that again. Fear is, or courage. I'm sorry. I think I said that wrong the first time. Courage is not being afraid. It is being afraid and doing it anyway. A hundred percent. And what I love to say in addition,'cause I've added my own little caveat to that, which is fear. Fear is only false expectations that appear real. I have to give credit to my girl, Heather Dubo on the Real Housewives of Orange County. She said that one on one of her podcasts. And I was driving in the car and she said, you know what fear is, it's just false expectations appearing real. And I almost hit the car in front of me. I was so taken by that because it's really true when you think about it. So I love what you said because it does take courage to reach out, to work with someone. It takes courage to put yourself out, to be vulnerable to someone else. And many times our coaches are not familiar to us, so it's a stranger in the beginning. Yeah. But it is so critically important because I was trained and taught many years ago to lead development seminars. And the one thing that I always could not get out of my head was that life doesn't exist in your head. It exists in a series of conversations. With outside in the world that live outside in the world. And that's the only place really, that we can effectively change those and shift those conversations that we have.'cause in our head it's a really smart place to be because it's going to keep perpetuating those conversations, whether they're detrimental or whether, they're beneficial. It's just, it perpetuates that conversation. I can remember, it's been six years since my divorce going into my seventh year and the conversation that has lived in my head about my desirability or my being desirable because of what I went through has been this little. Nat in my head that has been buzzing around there and it's super quiet, but I know that it's there and it continues to rear its head. And over time, and I've talked a lot about this on various episodes, over time that conversation becomes your reality. Yeah. Yeah. And so when you start to believe something about yourself and you know that it's not serving you is when I think we crack the egg open and we do it with a coach. I have the utmost respect for you and the other coaches that I've worked with because. To be able to hold the space for someone to open up and to be vulnerable and to crack that egg open and to start that conversation and maybe reset that nervous system is a big move. And so I want our listeners to really understand that we support them in that and it's hard but it will be so beneficial for you if they do that. Yeah. I want to backtrack just a little bit'cause I breezed right over it.'cause I started to get into the conversation with you. How did you get into then coaching? So you were, obviously you'd come out, you were did high school, college, were you, I think I want to be a coach. How did that happen? No. So I actually went into social work after college. Okay. So much, much of my career was built around what I call nonclinical psychiatry, social work. And I worked in a nonclinical way with adults who were struggling with severe mental health disorders. So like severe cases of bipolar disorder, severe cases of schizophrenia. And as a nonclinical practitioner, my job wasn't to try to help ease their symptoms or heal them in any way, but to come alongside them and figure out like what resources do they need in the community in order to stay more stable so they're not getting hospitalized as much and things like that. Which is funny'cause when looking back on it, it really is similar to coaching. Even though I wasn't actually coaching them on anything, we're just figuring out resources together. So I did that for many years and I really loved it. But like a lot of people in social work, I got burned out on the bureaucracy. I left the industry, I started exploring some other things, but in the end, I really missed helping people. And so I really wanted to get back to doing that, but I wanted to do it on my own terms and with a population that I really resonated with. And so that was really like, oh, I want to work with men, specifically GBTQ men. But then I had also run a blog for many years on the side that was just telling like personal life narratives through the lens and the philosophies of nudism. And so that's where I also got really curious about like, how can I ha how can I integrate these things? Coaching and nudism, I've had. Really deep, beautiful, wonderful conversations. Really vulnerable conversations with people while completely naked. And so I knew personally that this worked. And so I was very curious about how all of this could come together. So it was all an experiment. But yeah, that was like the transition of how it all came together. So you just said something that could literally be the entire genesis of this conversation, which is Oh, seriously. Is, and we'll get to it when we get to it. But what I heard was is that you've had some really incredible deep conversations with other people while being naked. Yes. And I think that's going to maybe cause a few people's, hair to stand up on their arms to wonder what that means. And again, like you said earlier, I want to wrap that back in that we, don't conflict this with. Voyeurism or exhibitionism or something sexual. There's a reason why you can have those kind of vulnerable, unearthed conversations while you're standing naked with someone because of the fact that you're naked. Yeah. That armor is gone. That armor is gone. And you and I talked a lot about this when we started working together because I had gotten really good at wearing the armor. Like I had spent a lot of time and a lot of money on this armor. I always had to look good. I had to drive the right car, I had to have the house. All of that stuff was armor for me. But what it was really covering up was this vulnerable side to me, which yeah. Wanted to be and share with people this side of my life, and I'm calling myself on it right now, which is earth breaking in of itself. But I had this curiosity and this desire to be. Naked. I enjoyed it When I lived in Palm Springs, I don't think I wore clothes except when I was going to leave the house.'cause partially'cause it was 140 degrees outside in the summer. But I just enjoyed it. But there was never an opportunity to socially be that, that I knew about. So I lived this very kind of quiet and. I'll say shameful to an extent embarrassed kind of existence. And so I could be naked in my pool, but the thought of being naked in front of somebody else was never going to happen. That wasn't a partner. And so that was a part of me that was really struggling as I came into this new conversation over this last year, I was living in San Diego, I was meeting new friends and I said one day that I really wanted to start to explore certain parts of me that I hadn't explored in the past that I feel were not being true and authentic to myself because I spend, let's face it, every week having conversations with people on this podcast about living their authentic lives. And there was a part of me that was not. And so you and I met through a mutual friend another coach who runs retreats on Facebook. I think I reached out to you one day and said, Hey, I'm curious about your coaching practice, and here's the reason why, and. We jumped on a phone call to have that conversation and that conversation really, Scott was probably one of the most, there've been several, but one of the most pivotal moments in my life because I experienced every emotion Yeah. In that moment. And just so everyone's clear, that first conversation in your coaching practice, you are clothed. It is not naked. You are wearing clothes. And so we had a conversation and just like we are today, and by the way, for those of us who can't see us on video, we are clothed in this conversation. Wasn't quite ready to go there yet, but we had a conversation that really changed the directive of my life. And it wasn't so much now that we're several months in about being naked. It was about getting comfortable. By being uncomfortable. Yes. And resetting that nerve that had me conditioned to hide certain parts of my life that I just wanted to express. Maybe not live every day, but just wanted to express. And it's because, and we shared about this as well, is that I didn't grow up in a naked household either. It was just my mom and I. And that in and of itself was a really interesting place.'cause I was raised by a very strong woman who didn't necessarily have the same conversations that your mom had, but I. Nudity, sexuality, the various things about growing up and being in that age where you wanted to explore certain things and certain sensations and certain pleasure was very difficult to navigate. So I had a lot of shame around being naked, masturbation, what were all these feelings that I was having?'cause I didn't have that role model. Not to mention on top of that, where all the conversations around my sexuality, I was, started to be attracted to other men. And if you remember back then, I'm a little older than you, I think, but back then it was the JC Penny catalog. That, that was our starting point. I say all that because where I am today after our journey together, which still continues, is a much different place than I was when we started. So much so that it's surprising me quite a bit in many instances. But it's because you not only had conversations with me on a weekly basis about where this was coming from and. The conversations that existed, we started to peel the layers and peel back and started to look at why these conversations I held on so tightly, I had a death grip on a lot of these conversations. Yeah. But what it was doing was really suffocating me. So I'm sure that's the same that you experienced with other people, I would assume. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. And then, but I think the amazing thing about doing it in this way is it's not just having those conversations.'cause you can have those conversations with any practitioner, but to have those conversations while actually in the nude Yeah. Helps us embody what we're currently trying to move toward while dismantling this stuff. We're trying to move away from that. And you can't hide. Yeah. So I want, I want to explain to our listeners,'cause again, most are just listening and not looking on video. Part of the process when we work together. If you don't mind if we go there at this point I'd love to transition to your process of coaching. Is that okay? Yeah. I actually thought that was already obvious. It was. That's what I do it every day. I know you do it every day but there's a really critical and important conversation. So when you start to work with someone what I loved about your process and your journey with your clients is that you meet them where they're at. So the coaching sessions obviously started out that first one was clothed. Which was great'cause it sets that. It sets that trust level with you, right? I very instantly trusted you. There was not a conversation in my head about, oh, this is creepy. Or a little potentially weird or a little potentially awkward. It was a big comfort level and an excitement at starting to have the conversations that would hopefully break open this new freedom for me in this new space. Yeah. Session one or session two, I should say. As I said, you meet people where they're at, so it was really about how comfortable are you do you want to have another session closed or not? And I remember saying to you, let's just rip the damn bandaid off. Let's go for it. And we did. And. I share that because the conversations that were going on in my head, were on video, obviously. You're in Denver. I'm in San Diego. And the conversations that were going on in my head took me right back to conversations that I've had, being at a nude beach, or being at a pool party or being, just even naked in front of that mirror that I used to get up, or I still get up in front of every single day, which is, oh God, am I being judged? What does he think? Am I too fat? Do I have this weird body? Is there judgment? All of those things. And I would venture a guess that everybody that's listening has had those kind of conversations at some point in their life, if not ongoing. Yeah, absolutely. When I, so again, nudism did not come naturally to me. I was thrown into it myself, right? Not through coaching, but through an experience. And all of those things ran through my head. It was one of the most terrifying events of my life and also the most liberating event of my life as well. Yeah, we all go through those at some point, as long as we're willing to face them. So can you talk a little bit more about that? You don't have to necessarily describe the experience, you obviously got into it. You shared with me on a couple of our sessions that it became over time, just a little easier. You talk a little bit about that.'cause I think that's important for our listeners to hear that it's, it changes over time and what happens over time. I want you to share it from your perspective.'cause I know mine, what happens over time with that nerve as you reset. Can you talk about that? Yeah, absolutely. My experience was funny. A friend had a very adventurous friend had duped me into going to a nudist barbecue. He had just invited me to a barbecue, didn't tell me what it was until we got there. I was just like, hell no. I absolutely can't do this. Did it anyway all sorts of details I could give about the evening, but when I walked away from that evening, what I really realized for the first time in my life was that I felt okay. That's huge, because a lot of times, again, going back to that idea, we have to think that, in order to be all right with our bodies, we have to love our bodies. And it wasn't about loving it, it wasn't about being perfect, but it was just about being okay in that moment. And that was really powerful. Okay. I want to stop there real quick. Oh, okay. Yeah, because that's, no, that's critical. Yeah. It wasn't about absolutely 100% loving your body in that moment forever and ever. It was being okay in your body In that moment. In that moment. And no longer fighting my body. Which was the first step to getting more comfortable and then more comfortable. And then more comfortable. And then share if you can, sorry, I'm directing you, but this is important. Yeah. Yeah. So when you start to do that, my experience was, is that the nudity floated away. It does time. It yeah. So when you're with a bunch of people naked, you're not making, it's not a sexual thing. The nudity does relegate to the background. You're always still hyper aware of it, especially if you're new to it. But it does relegate to the background in a way that you can more fully embrace yourself rather than analyzing yourself while fully naked, which I think is really good for the brain and what happens to you and others in that moment as you continue to do that, because I think that's an important aspect as well, is that, how does it feel?'cause I think we go based off of feelings. So when you're standing there that first time and you're at this barbecue and you're like, hell no, I'm not going, and then you're there, and then over time you're like, this isn't so bad. How does that make you feel? Is there a freeness, is there a release of that anxiety or that stress? Yeah. So it, it brings on a lot of feelings at the sa at the same time, and I would venture to say it's not the same experience for everybody, but probably common themes is that it's both freeing and exhilarating at the same time. So that exhilaration really helps us lock in with it. But then as it gets relegated to the background and we continue to get comfortable and we no longer think about our bodies, it's really nice to be there with our bodies and to, instead of evaluate ourselves or judge ourselves, it can be about our hopes and our dreams and our, ambitions, our internal values and stuff like that. And that's where it starts to feel like at home in our bodies. And whether that can feel like feeling relaxed after that adrenaline rush of doing it, or feeling just unguarded, feeling shoulders down, open free laughter, engagement, connection. It's all really, yeah. Incredible. I think one thing for me was and I've obviously, and I've shared this before, but I've gone to the nude beach a lot. I've gone to nude beaches. When I travel, I go to the spa. I literally, like I said, in Palm Springs, I think I wore clothes only to leave the house. It's just very freeing to me. Yeah. I never really took the step though, of being in a social situation. So for me, being naked was just being naked. There was nothing to it at home or when I was traveling, but. Socially, that was the thing that needed to be rewired for me. And I will just say though, that the experience of it over the last six months,'cause for those people listening, Scott gives you homework. Exactly. Be prepared. There's homework and it's not always written. It's experiential. But the thing that was so interesting for me was is that I not only exhaled for the first time. I exhaled in social situations. People think I'm very social, that I'm very outgoing. I'm awkwardly shy in a lot of respects and in social situations because of that armor, because of that conversation that I have about who I need to be in that space and who I think people think I am. I don't exhale a lot. And so I like without the clothes and without the whole thing, and to be honest, nobody was paying attention to me. They were all paying attention to the food or the meditation class or whatever the case may be. But I was actually able to exhale. Yes, but only was I able to exhale once I exhaled and I really presenced that exhale oh yeah, God, that felt so good. I looked around the room and I thought, wow, there's just a lot of different bodies here. Yes. And not only are there a lot of different bodies here, it's not the image that I thought it would be because of the experience that I had and the exposure to it was always something that wasn't reality. Like we talked about social media or porn or those other things. It is not always a balami video. It never is going to be always about the ripped kind of muscular, image that we think this community is. And it was one of the most beautiful things I, I really had ever seen. And I just remember I'm a big watcher and I love to observe people. And I remember standing in the back of the room watching people converse and talk and it was no different than if they were standing in the house fully clothed. And so I, it was the biggest reset for me'cause I thought, alright, it's just about being you and it's just about being comfortable in your own body. And so that was really powerful. So I appreciated you sharing your first experience because I'm assuming that obviously then made that transition to this, naked coaching, a lot more powerful, not only for you, but also your clients. I would think that would be the case. Yeah. And I want to add to what you said too, to the experience. First of all, I love the talk about letting go and being able to breathe. I think that's so beautiful. And very true. I find myself in closed social situations. I find still myself, still holding my breath a lot. But when I'm in new to situations, that's where I feel like I can breathe and be more my authentic self as well. But also I want to talk about like the impacts it has on the brain, because again, please, a lot of times when we see. Narrow versions of body types as presented in media, whether it's traditional media or social media, our brains start to think that's the norm with bodies. Like unreal bodies become the norm and normal bodies start to feel abnormal. So when we're in social nudism and there's a variety of body types, our brain actually gets to see bodies that are real, bodies that are diverse, and bodies that are normal. And that has an impact on the brain. And not only that, but we get to see these diverse body types being comfortable with themselves, that also has an impact on the brain. Like it creates a new narrative for the brain to learn, rather than just what we see in media over and over again. So it leaves that imprint and then the brain learns through repeated exposure, so it's not just like a one-time thing. That one-time thing will be great. It'll be very liberating, but the practice of it over and over again. Becomes this like quiet recalibration for the brain. It's like we can learn body positivity or body neutrality through lived experiences rather than trying to learn them through affirmations. And that's where as a big impact. It's interesting, I was listening. I think you and I have listened to the same podcast. I think you were even a guest on that podcast and I was listening to the episodes where they talk a lot about nudism and being naked. And I was always fascinated, and this is something that came up for me that you and I talked about, is that I always used to have this conversation that it was a little creepy because of what I experienced. So when I started to really share with a couple of my friends that I was doing this naked coaching, they're like what does that mean? And I would share it with them and they'd be like. Wow. They would just completely be like, you're doing that. But it was interesting, the conversations or the fact that I posted one day a picture of me down at Blacks Beach, and I'm not kidding you. I said, I was at blacks and I think 15 people texted me and said, are you naked? Like a little quiet? And I'm like, yes, I'm naked. Yeah. It's like blacks speech. I'm curious as to what your thoughts are, what your recommendations are, suggestions to people in order to bridge this conversation. Because again, I think there's so much misconception out there that nudism or being naked always has to equate, especially within our l our GBTQ community has to equate to a sexual act or has to equate to a end result. And it really doesn't. Yes, there's that component. Yes, there is that opportunity, but it's not always about that. Can you talk a little bit about that? I think that's important to wrap. That conversation in, because it's not always about sex, it's not always about that. And yet the con, the questions that most people ask me are a little bit more sexually slanted. Aren't you afraid of getting an erection? And what happens if you do? That brings up the whole conversation around shame of our own body that does things naturally. That doesn't necessarily mean you're looking for that. Yeah. So talk a little bit about that if you can, because I think that's important.'cause I know a lot of people who are asking me questions that are super curious and are waiting to see if this is a long lasting thing for me before they take a dip in that pool. And I just tell'em, I'm like, do what I did, rip the bandaid off and go get in the pool.'cause it's really cool. Yeah. Can you talk a little bit about some of those opportunities for people to just really see it for what it is and try it? I think the importance comes from separating our bodies from sexuality. So our bodies and sex go together really naturally. It's a beautiful process. I'm super pro-sex, but when we only hold sexual space for our bodies, that's when we tend to still fall into that narrative that our bodies have to be something performative. And I think especially in the world of the L-G-B-T-Q people, especially for gay and queer men, like our bodies can start to feel like a resume. And so is it measuring up because we're only holding space in an in, in an objectified way. And so this is the process of de objectifying ourselves. So earlier we mentioned this idea that like society gives us kind of two options. Like we either have to be ashamed of our bodies, or we have to be really sexualized with our bodies. And of course that's going to leave us a bit disconnected with our bodies because that's really confusing. That's the only two options we get. Yeah, there's no middle ground. Yeah. But there is, which is now new to some, right? So we get to hold that non-special sexual space where we get to separate sexuality from nudity. And it is a little tricky'cause it's not always clear cut. So like, when we are naked around people, we may start to unintentionally experience arousal, or it might be a little ti titillating. But what I say to people is, it's like meditation. Oftentimes people have this misunderstanding of meditation where you can't have any thoughts in your mind whatsoever. It's not quite right. It's that we're trying to clear our minds and then thoughts will naturally come up and we may greet those thoughts, say hello, acknowledge them. And let them go. They may come back and we do it, and so forth. It's the same with this. Like we may be naked together. Some of that energy may come up. We may start to feel that sexual energy. We could acknowledge it and greet it, but then we let it go. We're not attaching to it. And in that non-attachment, that regular practice of non-attachment, we can really begin to separate nudity. From sexuality and really hold that third space for our bodies. This is just my opinion. I preface this by saying that I believe that the immunity has. A really strong point of view as it relates to this and has collapsed the two and doesn't necessarily know how to separate. Because it is so sexualized. Our community is very sexualized. Yeah. Yeah. And even in the dating world, Scott, it's, it's, we've, we talked about this, it's like I was sharing with someone yesterday, it's even on the dating apps, we're trying to find dates to go out to see if we can meet our person. And it's become so sexualized instantly. Automatically. Yeah. And that, I'm not saying that's how everybody feels, it's just very prevalent. It makes it difficult for the rest of us who are like, I just want to go on a date with you. I don't know if I want to have sex with you yet. Yes, you're attractive, but we may not have an energetic connection. Yeah. And so trying to find that balance between that conversation that yes, this can be exciting and it can be, titillating is a word I think you used. There are times where I just. want to be in a group of people that have that same energy and that same space of just being themselves. I did want to say one thing about it, and not only in that experience that I've had, I've now had a couple of them. I attend a yoga class that's naked, which I love. Some of my friends think that's very weird. I'm like, you're not even paying attention to the person next to you. You are literally focusing on the fact that your legs are about to collapse underneath you.'cause you've held that pose for 10 minutes. But the other thing that's so fascinating is the conversations have changed in the circles with this group of nudists. And the conversation is about everything else other than the gay community. And that's been fascinating to me. It's not like you're at a gay bar. It's oh, hey, it's all about the same thing. Because again, the armor's on, you're trying to present a certain self, whereas you're standing naked with a group of people. There's not a lot to talk about in terms of physical stuff, meaning your clothing, your armor, the cars, all those. But the conversations have gotten very deep, very quickly. Yeah, I really like that. Like we're having conversations about what interests us and because I think we're all in that same space if we know we're there and we're taking that step to be comfortable in that environment, then there are other things that are also interesting to us. I've had the most amazing conversations, especially after yoga class with people. I've also met people who love as I do. Being a gay man, love it. I don't want, I wouldn't want to be anything else. I'm proud of who I am. I'm proud of our community, but the conversation doesn't exist around solely being GBTQ. Yeah, it's a part of who we are and there are other really interesting and really wonderful parts about us, and that's the thing that I love. And I'm not to say that all other gay men are like that, but many times when we're in social situations, especially around organizations or around certain events, it really is about impression and it's about those peacock feathers a little bit. And sometimes it's nice just to be around people that just want to talk about something else. And so that's been really powerful for me. I will say as we continue this conversation, I do have a couple questions, but I will say the most powerful thing for me has been this ability to just breathe and to breathe around being in social situations. And that's something for me that the last couple years was really hard. We went through obviously really tough, environment with COVID, we were completely detached from everyone. We were not able to connect with people. We were not able to be, in intimate conversations with people except on Zoom. And I think that did something to us. It did something to our brain. It did something to our nervous system and created a disconnection. And I think what's so powerful about not only working with a coach, but also being able to be in these environments has really reconnected us. Yeah. And it's, for me, it's been an opportunity to just sit and be with other people. And it's, honestly, this is going to sound maybe a little dramatic, but it's been my savior. Yeah, it really has been. And so I'm really grateful to you for, walking me through the process and being able to guide me through these conversations that were not easy. We did some mirror work together. We took a look where I had to really look in the mirror and have a conversation about my own body from head to toe, and missing no part, I had never done that before. So I want people to understand this isn't just you and I sitting on a video, naked having conversations. There's real work. Yeah. There's real work that's done. And that session with you, was probably one of the most profound opportunities I've ever had to really look at myself. And now what I'm noticing is that not only am I really comfortable being naked, I don't even pay attention to anymore. I'm like, I told you I'm the first person to get naked at yoga class just because I want to get into the practice. I just, and the classes are amazing to begin with, but I just want to get in and start the practice. Yeah. But here's the thing that's so fascinating. And I haven't shared this with you'cause we'll talk about it at our session tomorrow, but what's happened is I am a hundred times more confident and comfortable and vulnerable clothed in my conversations. Does that make sense? So I'm now being able to walk out into social situations, dating situations. I had a conversation with a new guy that I met last night. That was probably the most deep conversation I've had with anyone that I have thought of dating in the last five years. And I really believe it's because I'm in this new space now that I'm okay. Yeah. Yep. I'm okay. I'm okay. Yeah. So revolutionary. It's revolutionary. And it's also, and I will tell you, and again this could be its own episode, but there were not the same internal dialogue conversations that I was having on, we were on Zoom together. I like the fact he actually took the request out of the dating app and said, let's jump on Zoom and have a conversation. So that was beautiful.'cause you're not just texting each other. That's, it was cute. Yeah. Yeah. But what was happening in those conversations is that I wasn't in my head about is he going to like me? Is he going to think that I'm attractive? Is he going to, is he going to, is he going to, it was, is investigative and conversations about life and about how did you end up in the desert? And, what's the next step for you and how are we na navigate the craziness we're in right now? And those type, what's your favorite restaurant in town? So it was really beautiful. Yeah. I'm clear that would not have happened had I not gotten naked. Yes. And yeah, so these naked experiences and these benefits that we receive from practices like nudism and naturalism, they do transfer over into other parts of our lives. And that's been proven with several studies too. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe something we can talk about another time'cause we're running outta time and I want to be respectful of your time and also our listeners, but I think it'd be interesting to talk a little bit at some point about the distinction or the prevalence of this, is this something that's more US based, this shame and this fear around nudity? Because let's face, a lot of Europeans do not have the same conversations we have a lot of European television does not blur out the butt crack. It's, we're a little, I think a little bit pent up here, but I think that's an interesting conversation to have down the road because that really looks at then, is this something that has become more prevalent here in the US with American adults than it is anywhere else? I think we, we could leave that. I'm sure you have some thoughts on that as well, but I wonder if you could just, as we wrap the conversation, give us a little bit of your insight of what does it really look like to have body positivity or body acceptance on a day that maybe you're not feeling it. What does that look like? What's something that you could share with someone as a little tidbit of information if you're having a really bad day? How do you get back in the conversation of body acceptance, body positivity? Yeah, so I think if you're having a bad day, it doesn't look like you necessarily have to slingshot back to positivity or to confidence. I think it can look more noticing the discomfort that you're experiencing without attacking yourself for it. I think that's really important. Like choosing not to spiral into criticism, like even if you don't feel great and that kind of relationship is far more sustainable than trying to feel good about your body all the time because bad days do happen. It's not about loving yourself a hundred percent all the time being perfect because the moment that doesn't happen, which it won't, we then crash. And so keeping that more neutral perspective helps us stay a little bit more balanced on those bad days. Yeah. And I think it's important, especially in this current environment that we're in, that we presence the fact that it doesn't have to be perfect every minute of every day. Yeah. We don't have to be perfect every minute of every day. It's just not going to be. Yeah. And that's where social media gets a little tough is because we constantly see a thread of perfection, and that's just not how it goes. That's the Buddhist side of me is like, suffering will always happen. So it's a bit like, how do we suffer well, instead of trying to avoid it completely. Ooh, that just how do we suffer well? That just that. Yeah. Oof. Yeah. I'm going to have to sit with that one for a bit. Yeah. I have two last questions for you. And then we'll say goodbye. If someone fully stops hiding and just living their life full out, and I mean, hiding from themselves and hiding from other people. How might their life change? What's one thing that might open up for them if they stopped hiding? Yeah. I'd go back to that idea that hiding reinforces the shame. And so when we stop hiding, that's when shame loses its grip. So what I like to tell people is vulnerability doesn't eliminate the fear, but it does create connection. So when we stop hiding, that's when connection can begin. And I like to say this part slowly, but like exposure when chosen and intentional can be incredibly liberating. Okay. So exposure when intentional. Yeah. When chosen and intentional. Chosen and intentional. Yeah. Because there really is an intention behind it, isn't there? There's an intention. Yeah. Yeah. And you choose it if, yeah. If we're exposed by not our own choice, like that's not going to have the same effect. So yeah. When we think about what happens when we stop fighting, like embracing exposure in a chosen and intentional way, like that's liberation. I think it's important for people as we wrap this up, that they understand that nudism Naturism doesn't necessarily mean the same thing for every person. For me, it might mean something different for you. For you, it might be something different for one of your clients or someone who's listening. There is a broad spectrum and it's called being able to have the freedom of choosing how you want to live without fear of judgment. Yeah. And there are some who live it on a daily basis. They are. They want to be naked 24 7, 365. That's fine. Yeah. There are others that just like to go socially or go to the beach or go to a social event. None of it stands with judgment. All of it stands with acceptance of who you are and who you want to be. And I always have a dare for people sometimes when I say you don't know what you're missing until you try it. Yeah. I have friends that like swimming naked is not different than swimming with your bathing suit on. And I will sit there and look at them and go, that is 1000%. That's an incorrect, not true. Yeah, it's an incorrect statement. There is nothing that feels better than swimming naked, so just try it. If you don't have a, yeah, if you don't have a beach in your backyard. Try a pool, go somewhere. But I really encourage people, if they're curious about this, we're going to make sure we put access to your coaching platform on our social media so that they can actually reach out. I encourage people to have that first conversation with you. It is so wonderful to be in a space where you are cared for and where you feel protected and so that you can try it. And here's the thing, if you don't like it, then don't do it again. Yeah. But I encourage people to try it. I encourage people to really try it. And I will say this before I ask you my last question. I am so grateful to you and I want to publicly say it because I was heading down a pretty rough. In the conversation that I was in as it related to who I am, not only in this world, but who I am in a relationship with someone and who I am in my circle of friends and through our work together, which will continue, right? This is not the end. I am coming into a space where people are going to accept me for me or they're not. Yeah. And it is no longer my responsibility to care about how they respond. What my responsibility is to be really intentional on what I present. Yeah. And what I present is intentional using the word that you used. And it also comes from a place of. Clarity that none of it matters. Really. Yeah. At the end of the day, at the end of the day, at the end of the day, it doesn't matter. Yeah. What matters is that we live our lives full out, and we live our lives just doing ourselves. Not to use the pun, but just doing ourselves. Just doing you. Literally. Just doing you. Yeah. And not being afraid to explore. And you have a way in communicating and a way in presenting this, that not only did you live your own experience, which I think makes a great coach, right? We talk about that. But you provided an experience that I hadn't found other places because of that exact opportunity to shed that armor. And so I'm really grateful to you and I'm so glad that you exist in this world and you're helping people find themselves and find their body and find that space. It is truly a blessing and I'm super grateful and I can't wait for this year ahead'cause I'm in a very different head space than I was in 2025. And I have you to thank for that. So thanks for being here today and thanks for sharing your wisdom and thanks for being there for me. Yeah, and I just want to add to that, thank you for showing up the way you do for you. Like you show that this work is powerful and that it can make such a huge difference and you got out of your comfort zone for your sake and you showed what it can do for you and not everybody's willing to do that. So yeah, people like you and getting to work with people like you is what absolutely inspires me to keep going and keep doing this work. It's so awesome. So thank you for being an amazing example of that. Aw. Thank you. I appreciate it. I could be your poster child at this point. Let's do it. Let's do it. That's an interesting conduit of, an interesting image of the video, of what, of the picture, of what that would look like as your poster child. But it's awesome. So my last question to you is, if you could go back to young Scott to that 5, 6, 7, 8-year-old, that was growing up in Denver at the time, what would you tell him about his life today? Oh gosh. I feel like this is going to be so boring, but I would simply say there's nothing wrong with you. There's nothing wrong with you. I'm going to leave that there'cause I have a lot to say about that. But that's not boring. I think it is absolutely beautiful, absolutely brilliant. Because simplicity and directness in a statement like there's nothing wrong with you is going to change people's. Perception change people's conversation and the image that they have about themselves because every one of us is okay. Yeah. I mean I get even a little emotional just saying that there's nothing wrong with you. Yeah. No. Yeah. There's nothing wrong with you my friend. Thanks again for being here today. I said you're welcome back anytime and yeah, thank you so much. This has been awesome. Really enjoyed it. Thank you. Forward, I look forward to chatting with you more. Bye for now. Yeah. Alright, bye. All right, everyone. Thank you again for joining us on today's episode. I hope our conversation resonated with you like it did me, and I cannot wait to sit down with you all again next week. Remember to subscribe to the Just Do You Podcast on your favorite platform so you can make sure not to miss a new episode, which drop every Thursday. If you like what you hear, you could easily share the podcast and episode directly with your friends. And if you would rate us and leave us a review, we'd love to hear from you. You can also follow us on Instagram at Just Do You Pod. As you go out back into the world today. Remember to just do you. Alright, talk next week.