S2E25 with Stephen Hallburn - When Movement Becomes Your Truth

In this episode of JUST DO YOU., I sit down with Stephen Hallburn — a San Diego–based dancer, painter, and unapologetic advocate for authenticity. Stephen’s life is a testament to what happens when movement becomes your truth — when every step, every brushstroke, and every choice unveils the courage to fully be yourself.

Stephen’s journey hasn’t been easy. He has faced profound loss at a young age and endured countless challenges, with people and circumstances pushing against his dreams. Yet through it all, his resilience, courage, and unwavering heart have propelled him forward, allowing him to rise above adversity and finally bring his vision to life. It is a remarkable journey that I am honored to share with you today.

A proud member of the LGBTQ community, Stephen uses his artistry as a beacon of inspiration and hope, creating spaces where others can feel seen, celebrated, and free to be themselves. With a huge heart and a commitment to making a difference, he reminds us that living authentically is not just an ideal — it’s a practice, a choice, and a beautiful act of love.

Join us as we explore the intersection of art, identity, and courage, and discover how one person’s unwavering spirit can light the way for others to embrace their own truth.  

To follow Stephen on Instagram, you can find him here:  https://www.instagram.com/balletwithstephen

Thank you for joining us and we can't wait to welcome you back again next week! New episodes drop every Thursday and can be found wherever you find your favorite podcasts!

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Want to learn more about our host, Eric Nicoll? Visit: https://ericnicoll.com

Transcript

0:05

Hello everyone. Welcome to the JUST DO YOU Podcast. My name is Eric Nicoll, and I'm your host. If you are a first time listener, welcome to the conversation and if you're a regular, I'm honored that you've decided to join me for another episode. The Just Do You Podcast is centered around a network of conversations, which are meant to connect us, to inspire us, to find our own confidence, our own voice, and to live our own truth. And who knows, we might even learn a little something new that ultimately allows us to live in the sweet spot that I like to call the Just do you space of being. Each week, I have the privilege of sitting down for unscripted conversations with friends, family, colleagues, community leaders, and influencers that all share their own personal journeys. I hope that you enjoy our time together as much as I have. We are certainly going to laugh, and yes, we might even cry a little, but in the end, we are going to know that we're not alone during our life's journey. So are you ready? Great. Let's do this. Welcome to the conversation. Alright everyone, welcome to today's episode. I am so excited to sit down with my guest today. I'm going to jump right in and introduce everyone, but I have to say, when I met this guest on Instagram, I was immediately captivated by this, and hopefully you'll see it on YouTube, but this killer smile and this radiant energy and this height and this creativity. And I went, oh, I gotta know this guy. And thankfully he's my guest today on the podcast. So I'm going to welcome everyone to Steven Halburn. Hi Steven. Hello. That was so sweet. Do you know I say this a lot on the podcast, but I think everybody should wake up in the morning and be introduced like that. Right? Yeah. Like how great would your day be if you woke up every morning and someone doesn't have to be a spouse, it could be a friend or someone introduce you into the morning and introduce you to the world as to who you are. I think what a great way to start the day, right? Yes, love that. Yeah. You kinda wake up in the morning and you're like, oh, here's the coffee and let the dog out and you going to get your day started and you going to roll into the day. But like, how powerful would that be? And it's really interesting to hear people's responses. The podcast was designed, we're in season two, we're about to wrap our second season this year, which is crazy. But the podcast was designed around a network of conversations that kind of showcase people's journey to finding their space of being authentic, being truly themselves, and. In a current world in which on many different levels, we're being told that's not acceptable. Yeah. To be able to meet somebody who is not only the epitome of this just do you concept, but who lives their life in such a way that, as I was saying to you before we jumped on that we all have things happening. The world's a little heavy right now, but when you wake up every morning and you go out into the day and you take it on with creativity and that smile and a positive energy, that ripples and it reflects. So today I woke up and I was like, oh, I've gotta get through the day, but before I end up sitting down with Steven, and that thought of sitting down with you today is really what helped propel me. So you didn't know that, but I'm going to say thank you for that right away. Thank you. Yeah, that is very sweet. I yeah, it's true. It's true. I was not expecting that, so thank you. Didn't think you were so again, for our guests, yeah. I spend a lot of time flipping through Instagram. It's my morning ritual. I get up, I let the dog out, I feed her, I get my coffee, and I come back to bed and I enjoy my coffee and I sit and I flip through because I'm really looking for inspirational people. And I have to say that social media for me is really where I find these amazing stories. And I don't remember exactly how I came across your platform. I did. And like I said, it was instantly captivated by it. Number one, you're incredibly tall. How tall are you? I'm, it looks different on camera. Okay. I know my angles, but five 11, shut up. I'm at the cusp. I'm at the cusp of six foot. I'm right there. Okay y'all. I would've said six four. My hype. You do know your angles, baby. I know my angles. I know my angles. So a lot of your content on your Instagram pages you're a dancer. Yes. You're also an artist, but I'm going to talk about the dancing for a second. Yeah. Those angles make you look seven feet tall with legs for days and the killer smile. But I was really taken back by the content because like I said, it's just super positive and it's super engaging. And so I was having coffee and started to watch some of your videos. And there was a consistency that I noticed that was this constant smile and. I have to remind myself these days to smile a lot and to continue to presence that joy. And so I was flipping through and I thought, God, I gotta know this guy. I gotta get to know him a little bit better. And I reached out to you and I'm like, I don't know you, but I think your content's pretty cool. I would love to maybe talk to you about being a guest on the Just You podcast. And you instantly said yes. It was like, I hit send and you're like, yes, take it. Yeah, take it. And I was like, that's so great.'cause you have no idea how many people do not respond. It's crazy. And so I was super excited. And then we did an onboarding call and we sat down and we talked a little bit, and I think you and I probably could have talked for. Couple hours longer. Definitely a lot longer. Yeah. But I kept saying to myself, I want to be really respectful of your time and also save a lot of the conversation for the podcast. So since then, you have also introduced me to your amazing partner who is coming up. His episode will air next week, so I'm not going to give it away. Okay. So we're going to share a little bit more about him next week and his amazing project. But I have to say. You too in speaking with you separately. I've not been with you in person and I've not talked with you in person, but you two make quite the dynamic couple, so I am quite impressed and happy and honored to have you on today. For sure. Thank you. Yeah, thank you. So let's spend a little bit of time. I want to get to know you and I want our listeners to know a little bit about your journey into this self-discovery and finding your path to just doing you. I'd like to take my guess back a little bit to their childhood. I want to know what the young Steven was like. I have a feeling, or I should say an assumption, although I'm not so sure if it's correct. So give us a little, give us a little glimpse into young Steven, where were you born? Okay. Brothers and sisters, family, that kind of stuff. Alright, let's take it back. So I was born in Loma Linda, California. But I grew up in small town. So there's Nuevo, which is like. A very small ranch ish style town and then Hemmit. Which is like a desert. Most people know it as like a retirement place. There's nothing to do there. It's not really, it's not really popping. But I grew up in Nuevo and Hemmit most of my life until about 17, and then I moved away to go teach, or not to teach, but to dance. But Okay. So I have, I'm the youngest of six. Wow. Yeah. I have two sisters and four brothers. One of'em whom passed away. I never knew him. He was the oldest brother. He passed away at, I believe he lived until he was six. He had only a certain part of the front of his brain. Was the only part that was made, or everything else was fluid. I don't know how to say that in the most medical way. So it wasn't fully developed. And he was only, he wasn't really supposed to live, past maybe six months, oh, wow. Yeah. He had to have 24 hour care. He lived in a care facility. But yeah, he ended up living until he was six. Wow. And then, passed away. But, and yeah. And then after him with my brother Matthew, my brother Michael, and then me. So yeah, I'm the youngest of six I my childhood, I don't know. I always go back and forth because there's what I remember and then there was reality, so I would make up what my sister told me, my sisters, that I would make up stories. Like I, my parents were, kings and queens and we lived in these magical kingdoms and stuff, and I would tell people these things. I would make up stories because my home life wasn't, was very drastically different. So like my mom when I was five and a half passed away from cancer. That's right. And my, when she passed away, my dad just it broke him to say the least. He just, he stopped. He couldn't go further with helping us. He was there, but just, he didn't give us what we needed as kids. So it was a very much like a broken home. Even though I had my sisters and I had my grandma, my grandpa it was just a broken home. So I started going inward and making up these fantasy places and stuff. To shelter myself. And I think that was like a defense mechanism to make me to protect me in a way, Uhhuh. But yeah, I would make up stories and be super creative. So I was reading and writing and I would paint and I made up dances before I even started dancing. So it was just like an outlet for me to be creative, and that was my creativity, quote unquote. So that was when I was really young. And then by the time I was 17, I was had been dancing a couple years at this point. I started at 14 and I was moving away to a boarding school in Connecticut to further my education or ballet. I got a full ride of living and dancing as well. And when I turned 18, which was in October, my dad died in November. Oh my gosh. And so we found out like a few days after Thanksgiving of my 18th birthday that he had passed away, he'd fallen asleep and I think, my sister said he had an aneurysm or something like that in his sleep. So he was really in his place of living for three days before anybody realized that he was gone. So he'd been gone for a few days. So that in itself was a weird time for me because I was living away. I was dancing, my dad passes away. I am in this strange place where people were comforting me because my sister had to get ahold of the school director because I wasn't picking up my phone or anything. So she had to tell him what was going on. And then once everyone knew, they were like, are you okay? Are you fine? And it was in those moments, I just remember being super calm and being like, it's normal. This is normal to me. Death happens. I was very calm headed about the whole thing. But I think what was happening to me was I was trying to grasp the fact that I didn't have a mom. Then my dad dies at 18. And I'm living away. I don't really have any connections to like parents anymore. I'm trying to figure out my own self in this like space of living by myself and. I just went inward again, so I was trying to focus on like my dancing and what I could control on the outside with my school and everything. But what that did was, and I guess I wasn't that great because they made me see a psychologist or a psych psychologist. Yeah. Or a therapist. From the school. They made me see somebody because I was acting too calm. Like I wasn't showing any emotion. I was, I I started to black out in ballet class where I'd be in a combination, across the floor, whatever it could have been. And I would find myself the next second coming back to myself and staring at a window. I didn't know how long I was doing that for. My teachers would say, I would just stop doing whatever I was doing and just veer off. Like I just went someplace. And it was in that moment where I was like, oh yeah, like it is affecting me in a way that I didn't think it would was going to. Now, mind you, my mom passes away at five and a half. Then my grandpa, my mom's dad passes away at when I was 10, and then my grandma, my mom's mom passes away when I was 16. And like my grandma and my grandpa were like my rocks. My people. And so it was like boom, like everyone went. Now I didn't have a great relationship with my dad. And I had a lot of anger and resentment towards him because I felt like he wasn't giving us anything, I wasn't getting the father. Because he just, he physically and emotionally was just gone, he was doing his day to day, but it was like I didn't get what I thought I needed from him, and so I held a lot of resentment and anger at that time for him. But when he passed away, it was like I can't really hold onto this stuff anymore. He's gone, and so I decided, I just have to like, forgive him for whatever he couldn't do, and just think about the happy times that I had with him and make that more of a priority in my mind, not the negative, because the negative. He was a hurt person. He was a broke person who was just trying to make it in life and I was a broke kid who was just trying to deal with the fact that I had a broken father. And I just had to deal with figuring out how that was going to look like. I think it's interesting because we all, if we really take a look at it, yeah. We're all broken and we all go through the same thing, but in the moment you feel like you're the only one. Yeah. As an adult. And you start to have conversations about it. And I've heard a lot of people have 79 episodes in, and everyone has, and I'm not diminishing it from your experience'cause it was your experience, but it's fascinating to me that we all, it happens. Yeah. We all go through this. Rollercoaster of life and have to navigate not only through it in the moment, but then navigate through it when we're adults. So I can't imagine, that, just sitting here listening to that is, is pretty shocking that as a young person, you went through so much loss and yet you wake up one morning or at one point say, I'm going to focus on the positive and I'm going to focus on the good memories. Yeah. And the resilience there is pretty remarkable. That says a lot about who you are. Are you at this time when you're away at school? If you don't mind me asking, are you questioning who you are, sexuality, where you fit in all of that? Did that come later? Like, where is that all fitting into this rather Yeah. Circuitous route, it's interesting because I knew who I was since I was a kid very young. I remember being five and just staring at this one guy. We were at a pool somewhere. I was with my sister's sister. I remember being with somebody and I remember seeing this guy in yellow board shorts, and he had a furry chest, and I just remember staring at him and thinking like I liked him. But different than I, when I would stare at a girl and I liked her. It was more like I was intrigued by this man, intrigued by his hair and I don't know. So I just always knew. Then, once you get into like middle school and people start changing and everyone has to. Really show who they are in a weird way. You can't just be who you are. You have to be straight or it's like there's no Medium. Middle ground. And I just remember people always saying to me,'cause I've always been more of the effeminate type. My voice was always higher. I was always just more flamboyant. And I didn't mind that I, it didn't bother me, but it would, people would call me slurs at school, and I just remembered when that would happen. I would just be like, but I am so what's the problem? It didn't take me down. It was just like, you're saying something I already know. And I'm okay with it and are, you should be okay with it. And at that, middle school aged mind, I, I didn't use those terms, but. I never really had a time where I was struggling with my sexuality of maybe figuring out who I was. I just knew that I was gay. Yeah. But I do have a funny story side. Side note, my grandma when I was 12, she calls me one day outta the blue and I'm always with her and she goes, so I have to ask you something and I want you to be honest with me. Okay? Are you gay? And I'm like, on the phone what? My whole body just went hot and I was all, this can't be happening'cause like, why would she ask me that? And I go, yeah. And she goes, okay, I figured I already, I was already talking to everybody about it, but I just wanted to make sure that like it was true, it's grandma, you can't be just asking pe telling people this. And not even asking me first. She's I already know Steven. I've known since you were a kid. You just never said anything. And came up to me and talked to me about it. And I thought that was the funniest thing. I was like, granny. Don't do that. But it was the relationship that we had that, yeah, she could ask me anything I want, anything she wanted, I could ask her anything I wanted and she'd be honest with me. And vice versa. I think grandmothers are like that. My dad's mom. When I told her I was much older. I was 24. And when I told her I was so nervous and she said, she's tell me something I didn't already know. And I'm like, but grandma, how did you know? And I used to see her quite often. She lived here in San Diego. I lived up in LA and I said, how did you know? And she goes, honey, every time you came to visit me, you asked to eat on the good China and the good crystal. And she's no straight boy would ever care. And my God, I guess it gave anyway, which of course I now own all of it and it's so yeah. In storage. But I think that's so interesting, Steven is, you again, such a common thread. We all know at a certain point in our life. When we are different and we don't know how to express it, we don't know how to explain it. We don't know that it's okay because we've been told that it's not, or we've heard superfluous that it's not. And our parents, God bless them, don't have the, there's no school or class that they go to learn how to raise an LGBTQ plus child but there's no training. And so I think they do the best that they can. And yet I then say that was. For me almost 30 years ago it's like, why have we not come any farther? Why have we not been a place where I could come to my mom and say, you know what, mom? I like this guy and your guy at the pool with the furry chest. And the was my friend's dad who was a swimmer. Same thing, right? Every Friday after a football game, we were at the house and there was this guy, and I didn't understand it. I was nervous, I was ashamed. But when I later told that story, which it's way too long to go into now, but there's a funny story to it. But when I later told the story, they were like why didn't you say something then? And I'm like. I don't know. I was terrified. I was so afraid of being found out. And so how great though that our grandparents and our elders, as I like to call them, knew all along and, but just were like waiting for us to come out and not everybody is that fortunate. There are a lot of people who don't have the opportunity or don't have that kind of warm response. I want to make sure I make that point, but she sounds like a great lady. I think our grandmothers would've been good friends. Yeah, no she was amazing. She was a, she honestly was like my best friend. So like when I, when she passed away and I lost her, it was like, I think that's one of the reasons that I broke when my dad died, was because it brought me back to a place where I had another, I lost someone. Even though I wasn't close to my dad, I loved him, he's my dad. I think what brought up my dissociation and my self, going inward when he passed away necessarily wasn't, I would say him. It was the, I didn't deal with the death of my grandma. And I was so young with my mom that I, how do you even process who your mother is when you only have a couple yeah. Visions of what you think you're a member of this person. But my granny, it's no, I had her all the way until I was 16. I have so many memories, conversations just so much that I could hold onto. So when he died, it was, I ran away to go to this boarding school. Once my grandma died, I was like, I want to move. Also I needed to, for my dancing, if I wanted to be something, I had to get outta the town that I was in. And that was, there was no other way. But I know if I'm honest with myself, I ran away.'cause I didn't was part of it was I ran away.'cause I didn't want to deal with the fact that she was gone. I can understand that if I'm being honest. No, that's great. And I didn't want to believe it for so long, even though I knew she was gone. It was the first person in my life that like really loved me and really wanted the best for me and gave me so much, like outside of my sisters they're wonderful. They've always done so much for me and my best friend Lauren, and obviously Paul, my, Pete, my partner, but Granny was like, that was my person, that was you know who you're. Yeah. Your angel is, that was granny for me and I had a hard time dealing with that. So I left, and I left for that and reasons to get better and to, start my life and start my career. But yeah, that, that was the reason I think I broke was I was having to now face it again. In a different person. Yeah. So it all collided. But going back now, we're going to come back to this. So I never had a problem with myself and my sexuality and fitting out like who I was. Outside of dance. Now when we get to dance, my, that's where I was like, I was fighting because I was told every day that I had a different body. I didn't have a ballet body. I didn't have the lines and the proportions and the abilities that you would associate with ballet dancer or that would be considered that would help you get professional or, be in the world of ballet. So pause there for a second because te teach me'cause I am, I'm confused. So obviously you are almost six feet, you're incredibly handsome. You are physically fit. What's not the ballet body? Tell the novice or the, what does that mean? Okay, help me understand that.'cause I don't get it. Of course. So in ballet, your body is your instrument we create lines. Lines in ways. So when you look at a dancer, they have to have. Obviously now it's changing your different bodies. Nobody has a perfect body, but at that time when I started, it was still very much, you have to have a shaped foot, very arched foot, so you know, something that really points at the top of the arch. Straight legs or hyperextended legs were a plus. Flexibility turnout. So flexibility and openness in your hips to make a really nice flat position with your legs and feet. And I don't have any of those. I have, bent knees, just naturally bent legs. I've gotten them straighter as I've gotten older from dancing. But when I first started it, I had bent knees. I had. Harsh arches that didn't bend. So my foot really didn't give a beautiful line. I wasn't flexible and I had a very tight back, so I had no arabesque. And I wish I could like, give you pictures. It's hard to tell but how did that make you feel when you were going to do something that you obviously love and that you wanted to do and you're told those things, what's going through your head? Because someone's in that moment telling you that you're not potentially able to be who you want to be. What does, how does that make you feel? Where does that leave you or where did that leave you personally? Not personally. At that time I was so stubborn and so focused on what I was going to be, that I had the resilience to be like, you're not going to tell me what I'm, what? I'm not going to be like, I'm going to be this thing. I've known since I was four five that I was going to be a dancer. I didn't know how I was going to be one, but I knew that was my life's purpose was to dance and to be to create art. And so I think that just the sheer resilience, and I was prideful and I was stubborn, and I told myself, there is no other choice. Like you go away to school, you have to make it like there is no plan B. Like this is what you're going to do. And I told myself that every day.'cause I was like, I'm not going back to my small town. I'm not going back to having no life. This is my life where I am right now. This is my life and this is going to be my life. And no one's going to tell me some tell me different. But again, it was, I think if I didn't have that, I would've crumbled. Quicker. Now them saying what they said did affect me subconsciously, but I was so guarded and focused for so many years that I pushed it and compartmentalized it, and then it started coming out later in my life. Okay. Before you get there, because I know we're going there, so I have a question. Yeah. Okay. So how does it make you feel? What are the emotions that you feel when you're dancing? Tell me what that's like. The good analogy is I feel free, I guess free. Free of everything, free of anger, free of resentment, free of everything. I guess you could say, I feel. Bliss. If I could put bliss into something and even on a bad day, there's something, it could be a bad day, but I still feel bliss when I'm really dancing. I just think too, it's, I'm fulfilling my purpose, my purpose is to dance and to create and to use my body, and I'm a vessel for my source, for higher power. And it's, when I'm dancing, I just, I don't know how to explain it more than bliss. Freeness free, freedom. Even if I'm tired or I'm having a bad day, or. Whatever it could have been. I'm still at, I'm still at that bliss feeling. I'm still that freedom. That's what, I guess that's what it would be for me. Is there, I see this because I love dance. I am not a dancer by any stretch of the imagination, but I love dance. I love dance. I love watching ballet and just all kinds of dance. There's a power in it for you. So do you know what I mean? Like when I watch you, you can, there's a power fullness in it and it's a, maybe it's what's the word I want to use? A what presence? A posture. And I don't mean the air best posture. There's a posture to your dance. Yeah. Yeah. And I've been watching a couple different dancers on social media and. To me, it's just, I get the freedom, I get the bliss. It's joyful. But the empowerment that I see in people's dancing and what it's doing for other people little bit different example'cause it's not dance, but I am right this moment obsessed with Ray, the singer. Love it. Obsessed. Obsessed and good. I particularly like her. Where the hell is my husband's song? Yeah. Because it means a lot to me right now. I was just listening to that in my car earlier today. It's on auto play in my house.'cause it's just my, it's my mantra right now where the hell is my husband. But I'm watching some of these dancers that I like to watch on Instagram. Using that song and watching them dance gives me not only joy and not only that bliss, but it also gives me that empowerment. Yeah. Because it's expression in a way that doesn't require words. It doesn't require some definition or description. They're just dancing and there are some amazing dancers out there, right? That are just really inspiring. So I want to just, I was just curious kind of what you felt and what words you were going to come up with. I see The Bliss for sure. Yeah. Because you can see it in your dance. You also are an artist. You also paint. I do, and I love watching your painting content because you just paint do. At least that's what we see. There's no pretense about it. There's no this is going to be hanging in the Guggenheim. Yeah. Even if it could, I love watching your content when you're like, I've created a new piece, and you show it. The pride that you have in that piece that you have created is more about your journey and your pride and how you feel about the piece than anybody that's watching it. We all could like it. We could maybe not understand it. We could. Maybe love it, but it's you and your expression that the world's seeing. Yeah. And that's what I love about it. So I have a friend who teaches painting class, and I went to one of his classes and they did this poor technique where they poured. Levels of different paint colors in a cup and then you basically dump the paint and you adjust the canvas and you're using acrylics. Yeah. And it creates this. Yeah. And I realized in that moment, I've always known this about myself, but I realized in that two and a half hours that I was there is that I'm a perfectionist beyond compare. And that painting had to be perfect where everybody else was just messing with it and playing with it. And I, mine had to be perfect. Yeah. The second time was this real sense of expression. I didn't care what anyone thought. I didn't care how it looked. It was just me getting this out onto the paper. And I creative career, but not really, like really, it's not my full expression. And so to be able to watch people enjoy that within themselves is really cool. What's the process for you when you paint? Is it, do you have an idea of what you're going to paint when you sit down? Or do you just create from the cuff? What's that process for you? And second question to that first question is it a different process than the dance creativity? Curious if it's different. Okay. That's a good one. Ooh. So when I'm a visual person, okay. With dancing, visual music, visual, so I goes into my painting is visual. If I can visualize something before I've painted before I've painted it, then I know my, what I'm going to do. If I can't visualize something, that's when I get stumped. And then it takes me longer to build on something that I'm doing. Okay. As, so yeah, my, my process for painting is I visualize it first, or an idea or it could be like a tree branch or a grain of sand or, I literally could be anything and it will spark a whole like. Music video in my head of what I wanted to see, what I wanted to see with it. Now with my dancing, it's different, I think, because at least with ballet,'cause we have such, it's a regimented we have the same kind of thing build up in class. We have bar and then we have center. The combinations can be different, but it's a, they're either a DU or a Deje or ran Jean. There's a sequence to it. And I think now that I'm saying it, I think that I use that buildup in my painting. There's my, I guess you could say there's steps. Look at me just having this epiphany. It's, yeah, I have steps. So I guess it does correlate somewhat. It's definitely different for dance than for painting. I feel, for painting, I'm a little more free. Because I can create anything. It can be as hideous as I want it to be. It can be as beautiful as I want it to be. And I don't have anyone telling me that it should look either or. And ballet, with dancing, depending on the choreography or what you're doing, you do have that Yeah. Yeah. My listeners would be super mad if I didn't circle back because I took us off course. I'm going to circle back for a second because this is important. It just popped into my head. See, I was like, Oop. I derailed us and I'm pulling us back. So you're told you don't have the lines, you don't have. The feet. You don't have the legs, you don't all of that. So they're telling you what you don't have. You have this resilience where you're like, I'm going to do it. It's my only choice. There's no plan B. What was that next step? How did that go and how did you end up pushing past those barriers of what people were telling you could not do or you did not have to where you are dancing now? What was that journey? It's interesting because as resilient and as focused as I was, I made it happen. But I again, I guess compartmentalized a lot. So anything negative, I just didn't have time for in my mind. At the same time, I was very harshly critical on myself. Overly critical. I didn't allow myself to enjoy what I was doing for a very long time, even though I felt free doing what I was doing. It was this, it's this weird, I was unhappy with the fact that I wasn't what my teachers and what other people look like. But I wasn't going to allow myself to stop doing the thing that made me the most happy. Sure. And living in my purpose. And at the same time, I was extremely negative and hard and cri critical on myself to the point where I physically and emotionally couldn't enjoy what I was doing. And this is not just, a couple years, this is like from school up until three years ago. And three years ago is when I really made a change for myself. And so it was a very long time of having this weird up and down battle with myself. Yeah, I I just had a lot of resilience. I knew that if I looked at myself in the mirror, I wasn't going to what I saw, so I decided not to look in mirrors. I didn't like people taking photos of me or videos of me.'cause I didn't want to see what I looked like outside of what I saw here, outside of what I saw in my mind. Because I knew if I, if that happened, it would break me because I, in essence, believed everything that my teachers and others said about me, but I wouldn't allow myself to physically see it. If I couldn't physically see it, it wasn't real. And so it, again, it was a way to, for me to protect myself and to get through what I needed to get through with my schooling and to do the thing that I would love to do. And that I, that it was my purpose, it was my source purpose to do. Many people would wa many people would walk. Yeah. Many people would give up. Yeah. Prime example I remember I wanted to do, when I was in college, I wanted to do print modeling. And I was really excited. I don't remember where it was or how it came up, but I remember them saying, you'll never get hired'cause you're too tall. That's so interesting. He's very tall in high school. And I remember Stephen making the decision that I hate being tall, hated it. In that moment, I made everything about being tall, wrong for most of my life. Wow. And I didn't realize that until a couple months ago, really realize it when it came up in conversation about people being told that there can't be who they want to be because of X, Y, and Z. And I remembered that moment and I wanted to be an architect and an interior designer, but I'm colorblind told, oh, you could never do that because you can't see color. No, that's not true. But I believed that so many things that I wanted to do and that I really felt were a passion for me when I was younger. I didn't do because people told me I couldn't do it. And if you look at modeling now. There is every shape, size, color, everyone. Everybody. Yeah. Everybody interior designers, that's what teams are for, right? Yeah. So I can't pick color. You find a great colorist, so do I. Don't regret it.'cause I made an amazing choice and I was able to re to have my creativity and the work that I do and creating and producing events all over the world for the past 25 years. So I'm not, I didn't end up a, a call center, person. No, there's nothing wrong with that. But I didn't take that drastic of a route. Yeah. But it's interesting when I listen to you, because a lot of people would say I've been told this that the other, and I'm, there must be something wrong with me and so I'm just going to go do something else. And that's the part that pains me the most for so many kids and so many young people, is because we just don't allow ourselves to. Grow into who we are and we then have to unpack it in our thirties, forties, and fifties and sixties and go to therapy over it because we believe the things that people said. And I'm, looking at the current situation that we're in now, and I worry that there are going to be a lot of young people that are out in school, elementary school, high school, listening to a lot of the conversations that are happening. Choose to walk away rather than to have that resilience and face that conversation and move forward. So I think your story is super powerful and will resonate with a lot of people, especially those with kids.'cause we have to support, we have to support our young people in finding themselves and to realizing who they are.'cause they're beautiful, right? Yeah. They're unique. And you talk about source and higher power. Some people will call it God. But we were put here on earth for a reason. Yeah. We were put here to be of service to others. We were put here to be good stewards of love and compassion and kindness and all of those things. And. In a time where it's difficult to do that. Even I at 59 next month. Yeah. Want to stop at sometimes and just'cause it's a lot of effort. And then I remind myself, Nope, I can't stop. I have to be this steward of kindness and love and generosity and compassion and caring. And that's why I continue on with this podcast because I know that there are people out listening to these episodes, they're going to listen to your episode and either see themselves or see their child or their friends or someone that they know in that same circumstance and realize that it's just time that we're able to just be ourselves and live our life. And when you look at you now is after all that, that they said you couldn't do it. It couldn't be this, it couldn't be that. And I get the resilience part and all that, but you're dancing and you're existing in painting in your bliss. And what you're doing and how it's showing up to the world is, excuse my French, I don't give a F what you think. This is me. And you're also partnered with somebody who has had a remarkable journey to find themselves and are now writing books about it, which we will talk about this week on the episode. And when I think of the two of you together, I'm just like, holy crap. Like what a journey. Independently and now together that can make such a difference in the lives of even couples that are going to watch both.'Cause I've had the privilege and the joy of listening to you separately. And getting to know you separately. Yeah. But knowing what I know about both of you and how you feel about each other is super powerful as well. Sorry for my rant, but I just had to get that out'cause it's super important. No rant at all. It's super important because. I have a friend who's struggling with their child at the moment, and this child is expressing themselves so deeply and they just don't know necessarily how to navigate it all. And they were asking me if I had a resource of who they could talk to. And I made a couple suggestions to them and how to deal and how to navigate this conversation with this absolutely beautiful, brilliant child who is going to be a change maker in this world. I can feel it already. I can see it. And they had no idea where to go. So conversations like this are super important. I want to go back to a couple things that we've touched on. Yes. Yeah. So when you are dancing now does, and I'm sure it does, but does it pop up every now and again, imposter syndrome for you? Or is it just, have you just now resigned yourself to the fact that this is who you are? And that doesn't even pop into play. I'm just curious if it ever rears. Oh God, no. It still creeps in. I just, I don't think it, it will ever really go away. It's just what I choose for it to be. So I know now that I held on for many years to what people's beliefs and opinions of what they thought I could or could not do. But now it's more, I think I'm just happier with myself, so it doesn't matter to me anymore. And I have to tell myself that a lot.'cause in, obviously when I'm in class and I'm in rehearsals, you're never going to be good every single day. You're going to have off days. You're again with a bunch of peers who. Have beautiful bodies, to what you think is beautiful. And you have that comparison of gosh, I don't have that, or I wish I had that, but I have to really be present every day and every day I'm in class and rehearsal and be like, I am beautiful. The way I dance and how I look. And because I think for years people would always tell me like, are you having a great time? Are you having fun? Are you enjoying, did you have a great time performing? And I always said yes, and I shined on stage. But what I was giving on the outside was just defeated ness, it was very, it seemed very insecure and just not happy, but inside I could be doing. Whatever it could have been ballet wise and happy.'cause I was dancing and I didn't correlate that I had to project that outwards because I was so used to projecting it or, taking it inward. And that was my safe space. That what I was showing on the outside was not what I felt like in the inside. So when I realized that I had to start dancing from the inside, I had to show that excitement and that place that I feel, in my heart. I had to project that out. And when I started doing that, I started getting a lot of people telling me, wow, you look so happy. Wow, you danced so beautiful, like your presence and all these different things. And I'm like, but I've been doing that for so long. What's different now? And it was the fact that I really went. Inside myself and showed what was there and projected it out. And I didn't do that for so many years.'cause I was battling, and I I still battle now, but I, the voices are a little bit, softer. They're quiet most times. And if I feel like I'm going down that rabbit hole I just go it's not that serious. It's not that serious. Dancing, I'm literally dancing around in tights. I have to put it in that way for myself because if I don't I take it so seriously that it ruins me.'Cause I can't obtain that perfectionism that perfect anything. And so I have to tell myself I am a boy and tights. Dancing around, and it makes it lighter. It makes it easier for me, and it makes me come back to myself. Yeah. It's interesting, Steven, because I think we all, whether you'll admit it or not you, Steven, but you'll Yes. We'll ever admit it. Yeah. We are very hard on ourselves. Yeah. And we make ourselves sometimes our circumstances and who we are not. Yeah. Are our circumstances. Yeah. Who Steven is in the world is not his circumstances. You were not your past, you were not. That journey that you took, you were not The loss of those people that you loved. Who you are is this beautiful soul who is out changing the world with their crafts and just being who they are. And if that is who you are meant to be by this source and higher power is showing people that they just need to go and dance, whatever that meant for them, then you're doing the right thing. And I think, I can relate. I can totally relate because I am incredibly critical of myself as well. I've been doing this career for almost 30 years now, and I'm coming to the end of this career. And with the podcast, it was a two year procrastination of every reason and excuse not to do it. Yeah. People weren't going to listen and I wasn't going to be a good host. And all of those things, would it resonate? What do I have to say? What do I have to say? And are people going to care? And how many clicks and how many downloads and how many of this? And it's a constant reminder because people will pop in to your dms as the kids say these days, or slide into your dms and just make these comments. And it's it's interesting to watch, but I know that if one person listens to this episode with you, and it makes a difference for them, that we've accomplished what we set out to accomplish. It's not about a thousand downloads or. 25,000 likes. It's about the content and the impact that it's making. Yeah. And you're doing that, right? I will tell you a little funny,'cause I think I like to bring a little levity sometimes to conversations and I know it's easier for someone to say this than to, for you to experience it when you look at yourself and you're having those conversations. I have this small little group of friends that I share a lot about the guests that I'm having on podcasts and I will show, Instagram and photos and stuff. Yeah. And I showed your content to a friend of mine. She's she said a few expletives, number one, and she's oh my god, this guy. Gorgeous and stunning as she would not stop talking about you. And she was just, and she's look at, and he's just so lean and so beautiful and dah. And it was just fun to hear someone else say that. But it's then really interesting to hear you say the things that you say, because we don't see ourselves as others see us sometimes because we are that harsh critic. And I sometimes feel just like the intro earlier, is that we need to really listen to what people are saying about us. Yeah. And I struggle with that too. In fact, I just had a session with my coach about it two days ago. I was like, I don't know how people can say that when I don't feel that. Like how is that? Like, where's the disconnect? And we're in the process. I didn't want a quick answer. I didn't want to find out. I didn't want him to tell me what the answer was. Yeah. I need to experience that for myself, just like you do as well. We need to unpack what we've been told and what we've been taught and learn how to turn that. Yeah. And the people that are saying it to us and the people that are sharing there. Love and their excitement and their what's the word I want to use? Their willingness to spend time with us, whether it's you and your dancing, or your painting and me and the podcast and other things, is that we have to listen to them and we have to take that in, that's just the reality. That what we've created is not the reality. It's the story at which we've created the reality. But it's not true. It's not true. It's, and again, easier said than done. And if that takes us our lifetime to figure that out, then it does. But I'm super, I don't say this condescendingly, but I'm super proud of you for having this ability to push through life and to push past people's comments about you and about what you have and what You don't have to come to a place where you can simply get up and do what you love to do, and you've turned it into something that for you is bliss. And for others, it's going to give them whatever experience that it gives them, but it's going to ripple. It's going to ripple. And I'm, I said the same thing to your partner, Peter, about his book. It's going to ripple. I love it. It's going to ripple and everything that we do, ripples, and where I think we can become better to ourselves, uhhuh is to just let that all in. Yeah. It's called Just doing you. Not to use a punt of my podcast, but just to do you, it's just to do you. Thank you. So I have a couple last questions for you. Yeah.'cause I could talk to you all day, like I could did the other day. Let's do it. Let's do it. I can imagine you and people are getting together for dinner, coffee is going to be a very long experience, but I can't wait for that to happen. What's next for you? What's on the horizon for Steven? What's on? Okay, so I am choreographing for my company we're doing crafted, so it's local choreographers within the company. And it's going to be the opening of our season. So this starts I think the performances are the 25th and 26th. So that Saturday, Sunday. I think that's a Saturday, Sunday, and. I've choreographed a lot for the schools that I've taught at. I've taught, I choreographed for kids, but this will be the first time that I choreograph to peers or on peers. And it's, the choreography is the abstract version and what, or what I saw or I see in my mind of my struggles. And of what I'm talking to you about with the, resilience, but also the self-deprecating negativity on my own self. But then the, I'm going to make it no matter what, the constant thing. I'm creating that into a piece. Which I'm really nervous about. I'm really excited. I. It's just a big change for me. I'm really putting myself out there, and I think I have to, because if I really want to grow and make something happen for myself to that next step, like this is my next step, and then I really want to get my art going. And obviously the goal would be, I would love to be, doing galleries and have a, have my work being seen and resignated with people. That would be a wonderful thing. So it's just, and I also have the feeling that it's going to be, just like with dance, I had this inherent feeling. The second that I knew I wanted to be a dancer, I literally could see my entire future. I just knew there was no other. Nothing else was going to stop me. And when I started painting again, I knew I needed to do something creative, the outside of dance. And when I started painting, I was like, oh my gosh, I'm having the same feeling with my painting. Even if I'm, just started again. I'm having the same just gut feeling that something as big is going to happen. And I just have to be going on the ride again. It's like starting over like I did with my dancing. It's all the school and then you get professional and then you know everything in between. It's the same thing. But now I'm doing with my art, I'm creating with my hands. Not my body, but it's the same, yeah. I'm still creating it and feeling the source that is telling me like, you need to do this. Those are the next steps for me is doing this piece, pushing myself, pushing through the fear and the everything that comes along with that. And working on my art and just showing it, showing my process for my pieces that I do already and having fun with it. Because, for, a long time I didn't show people anything. I didn't show myself anything. And so now I'm like I'm actually really happy when I create something because it makes me feel happy. So I'm like, if it makes me feel happy I post it. Yeah. And I have stuff I haven't posted that make me feel happy, but it's just, I just know that if I'm happy about it, people are going to see it. Yeah, for sure. And that's where I am. If I feel even iffy about something, no one's going to see it. I just know that. But if I have an inkling that yeah, something comes out of me, that is what I think magic is. It's going to be seen. And nine times out of 10, I'm always, I'm always hitting the nail on the head. And I still get surprised every time people comment and write to me about my painting or my art or, I sold my first piece of art to a really awesome guy who also found me on Instagram. I was like, I love your work. I love like your artistry and everything. And he bought one of my pieces. And so just in that, it made me realize okay, I'm on the right path. Yeah. If somebody's so early on in what I'm doing and random people, I've never met these strangers to me, really through social media. Can write to me and be like, I love your art. I know I'm on the right path. Yeah. Yeah. It's so cool. I love it. If you, thank, you could give one piece of advice to a young person that's maybe sitting at home and wanting to do something like dance or art or singing or theater, and it's being maybe told that they don't have what it takes or they're too young or too tall, or too short or too fat, or whatever the case may be. What would be your piece of advice to them? My piece of advice would be, does it make you feel something? Do you feel happy when you think about that thing? Do you feel excitement? Of possibility, even if you can't render what those words are, if you can't render what the emotion is that you're feeling when you think about dancing or painting or Broadway or whatever it might be if it really hits you with sheer excitement and love and just anything that is powerful, you have to do it. Even if someone tells you, maybe they think that you can't do it, that you don't probably, that you shouldn't do it. I think if you feel something about whatever it might be, do it because your gut is always right. Your gut instinct literally tells you and guides you on what you should do. And I think I, I wish that I would've. Told myself that during the times that I felt most down you, your gut told you, Steven, this is what you should do and you need to be happy'cause you feel happy doing it. I wish I would've told these things or had the knowledge or had the understanding in myself when I was a little bit younger, because now I do that constantly and I have to, it's like a regimen and it makes me happy. And it's projecting to people I don't even know. So that, and right there tells me that's what I should have been doing all along. And I think to anyone watching, that's what you should do. You follow your gut, you follow that instinct, that feeling. And you don't let it go. Yeah. No matter what. I'm a big firm believer in timing. Yeah. And divine intervention. Because we can say that the minute you declare something in your life, doesn't matter what age you are, I always believe this. The minute you declare something, the universe aligns with that goal. Yep. And what happens is that the universe then tests you every step of the way because it aligns you with that goal. And it's a clear path all the time. Straight ahead. All the time. All the time. And then they're going to, it's going to throw you everything it can. Yeah. To take you off course. And some people will fall off course and some people won't. Some people will come back to it. So I look at it similarly and say that, yes, you could have told yourself that, but would you have been ready to hear it? Perhaps the universe worked in the way that it worked, because look at you now. Yeah. So that's a whole other podcast episode. You gotta do another one. I do. I do hope you'll come back. I have one, one last question for you before we wrap it up. I love today. Thank you. I needed this. I loved our time together. Thank you for sharing. I love your journey and for sharing your experiences. I think you were a remarkable human being, so I can't wait to see what's next for you. So you have an open invitation to always come back, but thank you. You're welcome. My last question is this, if you could go back to that five, 6-year-old Steven what would you tell him about his life today? Oh geez. Oh gosh. I would tell him you're exactly where you're supposed to be. And you never need to doubt or underestimate yourself. Yeah. That's it in a nutshell, the perf perfect way to end the conversation. I, again, thank you for being here. Thank you for spending some time with me. Okay. We're going to make sure that everybody can follow you on Instagram. Yes. Thank you. Anything you want to share with me? With Steven Vale. With Steven, with Steven. We're going to make sure that we actually get it up on our social media when we launch your episode in a couple weeks. But again, thanks for being here, Steven. You're a delight. And keep dancing safe. Okay? I gotta tell you though. I gotta tell you. Tell me. You're my first podcast. I've never done this before, so thank you for having me. You were of course, and you're amazing. And you're always welcome back. Thank you. So, on that note, please come back. Thanks for being here, and we'll talk to you soon. Okay. Okay. All right. Bye love. Bye bye. Alright, everyone, thank you again for joining us on today's episode. I hope our conversation resonated with you like it did me, and I cannot wait to sit down with you all again next week. Remember to subscribe to the JUST DO YOU Podcast on your favorite platform so you can make sure not to miss a new episode, which drop every Thursday. If you like what you hear, you can easily share the podcast and episode. Directly with your friends and if you would rate us and leave us a review, we'd love to hear from you. You can also follow us on Instagram at just Do you pod as you go out into the world today. Remember to just do you. Alright, talk next week.