REPLAY: S1E12 with Nathan Serrato - Navigating Your Love Language

Meet Nathan Serrato.

Nathan is a Trauma Informed Mindset Coach PCC, based in San Diego, California—and more importantly, a remarkable human devoted to transforming lives through connection, compassion, and deep insight.

Over this past year, the complexities of dating and long term relationships have been swirling through my mind—as they have for many of my closest friends—while we attempt to navigate the ever-evolving journey of discovering not only our own truths, but also what it means to find a truly compatible partner.

In today’s episode, we revisit a fun and thought-provoking conversation where Nathan offers his refreshing take on love languages, then leads us into a deeper dive into attachment theory. He breaks down the four core attachment styles with clarity and empathy, helping us better understand how these patterns shape our approach to both new and long-term relationships. Nathan’s insights are illuminating, practical, and deeply human—offering tools to build stronger, healthier, and more authentic connections.  Trust me, you won't want to miss it! 

To learn more about Nathan and his transformational work, visit:  https://www.queerconscious.com

Thank you for joining us and we can't wait to welcome you back again next week! New episodes drop every Thursday and can be found wherever you find your favorite podcasts!  

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Want to learn more about our host, Eric Nicoll?  Visit:  https://ericnicoll.com

Transcript

0:05

Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Just2u podcast. My name is Eric Nicole and I'm your host. If you are a first time listener, welcome to the conversation. And if you're a regular, I'm honored that you've decided to join me for another episode. The Just2u podcast is centered around a network of conversations, which are meant to connect us, to inspire https: otter. ai And who knows? We might even learn a little something new that ultimately allows us to live in the sweet spot that I like to call the just you, you space it being. Each week I have the privilege of sitting down for unscripted conversations with friends, family, colleagues, community leaders, and influencers that all share their own personal journeys. I hope that you enjoy our time together as much as I have. We are certainly gonna laugh, and yes, we might even cry a little, but in the end, we're gonna know that we're not alone during our life's journey. Are you ready? Great, let's do this. Welcome to The Conversation. Hello everybody I am so excited to welcome back to the Just You Podcast my friend and colleague Nathan Serrato. Good morning, Nathan. Good morning, Eric. How are you? I am wonderful. How about you? Thanks so much. I'm good. I'm good. I'm excited about today. Thanks for coming back and joining me. This is a perfect kind of way to start the week. And I'm super excited to sit down with you and have this conversation. Before I do that, I just want to give a little bit of introduction to our listeners who may not have heard your previous podcast. If you haven't, please go back and listen. It was amazing about identity and perfectionism. But this is Nathan Serrato and Nathan's a master certified life and trauma coach. He's also an amazing yoga and breath work instructor. And on his profile on Instagram, he actually says, which I love that he helps people pleasers become charismatic leaders. And I thought that was really cool. So this is Nathan Serrato. So again, good morning, Nathan. Thank you so much for joining me and we're going to have a great conversation today. Are you ready? Oh, I'm so ready. Okay, so we decided to have a conversation around this thing called dating. Okay. And as we've talked if I may be so bold, we're both single and looking right out in the dating world, a little bit different ages. I won't give away your age. I'm in my late fifties. If you want to say, Old you are, you can, but it's a really different conversation now for me than it was back in my 20s and 30s. It's also a really different time than it was back then. And so many things have changed and so many. Things are new in this kind of construct of the world that we now live in and how we meet people and not only how we meet people, but what we bring into every conversation that we have with someone that we are potentially interested in. And this is something that I think we could talk about multitude of times on multitude of podcasts is just navigating this world of dating. And a couple episodes ago, I sat down with a dating coach, we had a really great conversation, really insightful and a lot of fun. And Andrew shared some really interesting concepts and applications in this dating world. And when I sat down, I looked through your Which I follow religiously, your Instagram page and a lot of your posts. You've recently been on NPR and talked about love languages. You have talked about this concept of attachment theory, and there's so many great kind of what I call meaty conversations that you and I could have. But today I'm going to direct this over to you because I think there is a great opportunity for us to have our listeners understand Some of the basic fundamentals in this construct of attachment and what we take into a relationship or what we take into the conversations. Am I gauging that right? Did I set that up correctly for you? Oh yeah, absolutely. And I just, I want to really just validate. Where we are when it comes to dating in a post pandemic world. And I think something that you have said to me in our first conversations is that you were just shocked at really this loneliness epidemic that was happening across the United States and across the world coming out of COVID. People were still fearful of. being around one another, not just physically because of the consequences of getting sick, but also emotionally, people really withdrew, people got really comfortable and complacent staying indoors. So there's this layer of really getting to know each other on a personal level, but then also Culturally, there's so many factors going into it. There's so much openness in relationship styles. It can be very intimidating. It, there's so much focus on online dating that can be very intimidating. Connection overall can just be this, really unapproachable monster for many people getting into relationships. So I think breaking it down and really understanding what's at the root of all of these fears for people can help them to better assess and approach relationships. Yeah, and I think it's interesting to point out, so well said, I think it's, critical to understand that this is on both sides of what I call the camp, right? This happens, and I hear this from a lot of my heterosexual girlfriends that I connect with. They're having the same conversation that we're having in the LGBT community. So this is not community based issue. This is. It's. People and environment and community issue, no matter who you are and who you're looking for. And like you said, there are so many different kinds of relationships. There's a lot of what we call, classifications of relationship these days that we could probably sit and talk about that for an hour, the types of relationships that exist in our world today. So it's interesting because as I heard you say that it appears and lands that it's complex and complicated. What I mean by that is, it's no longer just about seeing someone that you're interested in, and working up the courage to approach them, to say hello, to get to know them, to invite them for coffee, to perhaps, take them on a date. It's no longer just about that. Now we have to worry about so many other things, right? I was telling you earlier, it's like putting up a profile with the right photographs, the right taglines, the right communication so that we're attracting that person that we want to attract. And I wonder as we get into this conversation today, that I'm so excited that we're going to have that People that are listening that are finding themselves in this dating world, regardless of what they're looking for, whether it's monogamy or whether it's something a little bit more free or open can really start to be a little bit introspective and look inward. And realize that we have control over who we are putting out into the world and in being ourselves and that just to you space of being that to me is the kind of powerful spot for us to be in before we can even move forward in the dating world is to really be very comfortable in this just to you state of being. Do you agree? Oh, 100%. Okay. And I think in that. I always think about the example of choices and how people say two to three choices are the best amount of choices. But if you go into a grocery store and there's a hundred versions of ketchup, like you're just looking at all the different choices that are out there. When you layer in the types of relationships you can have, who you can date where you're finding these dates, swiping through on Tinder or whatever app you're using, you're just overwhelmed. And it's almost like analysis paralysis. So yeah, really looking inward and being very clear on what you want first, and we'll get into that with some of these love languages and whatnot. Yeah. That, again, a whole other conversation. So why don't you start off just let's go back to the basics. Let's dig into this and I'm going to turn the steering wheel over to you to get us started in this conversation. Is that okay? Yeah, absolutely. So I know. You were curious about love languages. I have a post on my Instagram that says stargazing is my love language, right? And laughter is my love language. And you were asking me about that. So I think it's really important to recognize, when pop psychology, when something gets really popular, you have to really take a look at its validity. And it's application. So love languages was started by someone who is counseling people in their church. He was a minister. And so when you look at the sample size of who he was using, mostly affluent white folk and mostly straight relationships he found that love languages and learning how to give and receive love to your partners was beneficial for these relationships. But when you look at the research and understand You know it's impact love languages and having compatible love languages, doesn't guarantee that you're going to have a long relationship, a fulfilling relationship. And so people are starting to question why it's gotten so popular. And I think the answer to that is because it starts a really great conversation. Hey, I love to be appreciated in a certain way. I feel safe in a relationship when you tell me the things you love about me, when we get to hold hands, that's when I feel safe, that's when I feel connected. And I think it's very useful. I think that the trap is when you get too attached to any of these identities or these, I say the same thing with personality tests and astrology signs and people use these little boxes to put themselves in, but when you can really just take a moment to appreciate your complexity as a human and your unique needs and then communicate those needs to your partner, Oh yeah, that's going to absolutely help your relationship. because you're getting the courage to just be vulnerable with your partner and say, Hey, I really love when you do this. And I'd also love to know what I can do in this relationship to help you feel loved and seen and heard. So that's really the love language piece that I wanted to share. Yeah, so great. So let me ask you this question because it just popped into my head as you were talking. I am all for self help books and groups and conversations that have people get insightful or to take a look and to pause and to be present and to look into their own lives. So I am by no means squashing anyone's theory or anyone's approach, but do you think that we oftentimes. We'll look to these types of descriptors or these types of, let's say these love languages again, not to beg on that, but that we look at that to try to answer a question that's unanswered or to justify a certain way that we are in order to validate who we are, as opposed to really looking inward and saying what you just said, who I am as somebody or one of my love languages is being vulnerable. Cool. In my communications with my partner or maybe it's I think you said also one of your love languages was laughter. Those are really key and critical components that are not necessarily designed, I think, to pigeonhole you in a particular space. Does that sound on track? Yeah, absolutely. And I think, a lot of people use self help books, I think, to more so for other people and they want to validate why they're angry with other people. And I remember reading this self help book and it was like, just so you know, if you're reading this to get insight about another person or you're reading it to try and help someone else, you're reading it for the wrong reason. So you better read this. Oh boy, like something from this, you have the ability to change and it's just points out this I guess this habit of people to not want to look within because that's scary. And yeah, so for instance laughter for me, I had to get real about what do I want in a relationship? What kind of qualities do I want? What kind of relationship do I thrive in? And I want someone that I can just make jokes with that. There's so much. pain and constant, distraction and disruption in the world that I want someone that I can come home to and we can just laugh and be silly and nurture our inner child. So that's where that comes from. It's so great because it all goes back to the basic fundamentals of communication. We have to be able to communicate what we want, what we need, what we're looking for, what works for us, what doesn't work for us within the constructs of the relationship. And I think that to me is what's so sad from a personal level that didn't occur for my marriage was there wasn't that kind of open communication towards the end, which would have really changed the trajectory of the result. It may not have changed the divorce, but it would have definitely changed the trajectory of the relationship. And so one of the things that's most important to me now, moving into this, world for me in dating is communication is absolutely key and critical, being comfortable asking for the things that I need, but also in turn, making sure that I am asking the other person as well. What do you need? How can I be there for you? How can I make you be the best that you can be and vice versa? So I really. resonated with your examples of love language that we talked about earlier, We're going to, we're going to switch gears a little bit and take it off to a different topic, which I think is also really important, but thank you. I will say for putting that out into the universe, out into the kind of spaces of conversation, because I. No, for me, that my biggest commitment now is introspection, looking within and making sure that I communicate that to the people that I'm potentially going to be in a relationship with. And that's something that's usually new as the self proclaimed people pleaser. Yeah. And can I ask what it is that you've found looking within that you're looking for now in a relationship? Yeah. Oh, loaded question. Nothing like coming in hot, my friend. Nothing like coming in hot. Yeah, there's a lot, obviously. I think the people pleaser thing is really I think the biggest for me was that I have had in the past a tendency to overlook what we called red flags, green flags, blue flags, whatever color we want to use that I overlooked before and did not communicate in the moment. And what's interesting, you and I have been through a lot of the same kind of course development work and realized just the importance of being truthful and being authentic and saying what's there for us. And I think the biggest lesson that I've learned in this kind of last year and a half of really looking inward, what are my, patterns. What are my outtakes? What are my constants? Is that I oftentimes didn't speak up. And in every instance where I didn't speak up, the cost was epic. And Sometimes not survivable. So that's what I've learned in this last year is it's just, you've got to be present and you've got to say what's there for you. And you have to be respectful of yourself and your own needs and wants, because if that's not where you're coming from, then how are you going to be that for someone else? That's beautifully said. And actually a great transition to attachment styles, because what you just described right there is what I would call It's being in secure attachment, is where you're confident enough to speak on what it is that you want and need in a relationship, and that you trust that you can make things work. Disagreements don't scare you, but it's more about being authentic to you and loving yourself. And that's a great example of a secure attachment. So before we go down that path, can you just give us a little overview of what some of those attachment theories are before you go in so that the listener gets an idea of where we're coming from? Yeah. So attachment theory is really the antithesis to behavioral theory where it's everyone acts a certain way. Let me back up. People really treated babies like robots back in the day, and they didn't really take into account the impact that emotions and nurturing had on a relationship. So John Balby started researching this during World War II when families were separating and he's Oh, the separation is really impacting. Children and their, when they grow up, they're going to have a lot of problems. And so he started researching how attachment and childhood impacted their ability to have healthy relationships later on in life. So there are four main types of attachment styles, and I'll go over each one. But. When you can understand how you attach to another person, where that comes from, then you have a little bit more power on building a secure attached relationship, which is like one we just described right now. So does that does that make sense? Not necessarily question, But I love this because I equate these kind of conversations and being acutely aware of who you are and what type of attachments you may have. I like to equate that to putting it into my toolbox, right? I think it's important to be able to reference it, to presence it, to take a look at it. And so, within this toolbox, there's Many other conversations that I think I can presence in a moment to really identify where I'm coming from maybe the rabbit hole I'm about to go down in some cases, so no, totally makes sense, love it and let's go. I'm sitting on baited breath, and I just have to validate that. I love that you said, put it in your toolbox versus make it your identity and understand like it's so important not to put yourself in a box with these. So be careful on self diagnosing yourself with a certain attachment style. It's just a tool that you can use to better your relationship. Got to say that. And perfect. And you also think, and again, I've said this on, I think pretty much every podcast episode is that if you find yourself struggling with these kinds of conversations, or you are inquisitive or inquiring as to why, reach out to someone, have a conversation with a coach, with someone like you that can actually help walk people or walk you through, I should say, these concepts and ideas so that you're not always in your head. I've said this before, my head can sometimes be a very conflicting place of a conversation with myself. So I love that we're putting this out. Today, so that people can resonate, but also if you do find yourself, like I said, in that space, reach out and have a conversation with someone, talk about it, get it out into the open banter back and forth about it, be able to look at it from a couple of different perspectives, so that again, you do use it as a tool or you use it as a reference point moving forward and not pigeonholing yourself into that particular descriptor. Beautifully said. So let's, we'll start with secure attachments. Someone with a secure attachment is someone who was raised in an environment where caregivers are responsive to their needs. So if you're crying, they address it. If, you have something wrong, they take the time to listen to you to address your needs. And so you grow up with a sense of security and worthiness of love because your parents were attentive. And this really accounts for about 50 percent of relationships, which is actually surprising to me. But I'm like wondering if I have a question about whether people were a little generous in their self assessment, that's my own bias on it. So someone with a secure attachment they're comfortable with intimacy, they're able to express their needs and feelings openly. And they handle conflict constructively. They come in with the attitude. We can work on this. I'm not afraid of a challenge. I trust our commitment. So that's really the attachment style you want to work towards. And then many people have really a tendency towards one of the other ones. So one of them is an anxious attachment, also known as anxious, preoccupied. And this accounts for about 20 percent of the population. So the environment that creates this is where caregivers are inconsistently responsive. So they might be responsive in some situations and then not in others. And so that leads the child to become a little more preoccupied with a caregiver's availability or overly depend on validation. So they're really attentive to whether their parents happy with them, whether they're smiling or, whether they're doing a good job. So how this manifests in relationships when they're older is they're always worried about their partner's commitment and love. Are you going to leave me? Do you still love me? Is this real? Are you mad at me? So all these questions of self doubt were that partners then anxiously preoccupied of the validity of their relationship. So I'm going to have you pause there for a second because I have a question. Did you say it, so 20%? Of the people find that seems low to me in this descriptor. It does. It does. It seems low to me. It seems like most people or a lot of people have that attachment. Am I? Do they love me? So there's a couple theories I have around this is one, I might just be biased because the people I tend to work with come to me when they're in challenge or relationship, but that doesn't explain why you think it's low. But why I also think it might be low too, is just when people self assess, they tend to put their best foot forward and, have more positive view of themselves yet. I think even the people in secure attachment, or who have a secure attachment, still have a tendency to lean on one of these more challenging ones in times of distress or times of stress. It could be that's just You know, like a secondary attachment, but that's all theory. That's not Yeah, no, totally. This is part of the conversation, but I also wonder too, if it's not because are people really willing to admit that they live inside of that conversation of insecurity where we want to be the strong one. We want to be the partner. We want to be the equal player, but do we really have consistent fears of being left or does, do they love me? Are they going to leave those types of things? I think I don't know that a lot of people really want to answer that question. Yeah. Truthfully, out into the world, maybe to themselves, they admit that. So maybe that's why that number, that was my theory on why that number was a little low. Yeah, no I 100 percent agree with that. So yeah. And then the third attachment style is avoidant attachment. So this one's also known as dismissive avoidant, and this is about 25 percent of the population. So these are the types of people that value independence over relationships, the kind of person that withdraws emotionally or feels more pressure when you get faced with closeness, and they really just struggle having deep emotional connections. It's very service level for them. And the environment that really creates this is when caregivers not there for them emotionally. They're dismissive, they're unresponsive. And so that leads the child to become self sufficient, to become independent, and to say, I don't need anyone. I'm fine on my own. I got to do this on my own anyway. I've always had. And so that creates this wall of emotions. that, you can't let people in. I think the studies show that more men leads towards lean towards this anyway, which makes sense. Boys don't cry and you dismiss the emotions of men. So yeah, that's avoidant attachment. And then the last one is disorganized attachment. And it's also known as fearful avoidant. And this only accounts for about 5%. Yet this is really about mixed feelings around close relationships. It's about having someone when you want that closeness, you go on a lot of dates, you bring someone in and then out of nowhere, it's just cut off. And so it's desiring and fearing emotional intimacy at the same time. It's like you want it, but you just don't trust it. And that trust is really at the core, that mistrust. It's at the core of the fearful avoidant. So usually the environment that creates this is a more chaotic upbringing, more frightening caregiving environment. So maybe your parents are an alcoholic, maybe you were raised in an orphanage, whatever it is, but the caregiver is a source of comfort and fear typically, and it just leads to confusion and conflicting behaviors and relationships. So I have a theory. that in queer relationships, because of the mistrust from their parents, Of love. And maybe they had parents that weren't as accepting that creates a mistrust in the relationship. So I do notice a lot of queer couples that I coach and queer individuals that I coach tend to fall in a disorganized attachment. Cause they have this, I want to be close, but I'm afraid to get hurt mentality. Yeah, so those are the four attachment styles. Say a little bit more about that. Cause I think that's an important thing to talk about. Yeah. There's this study that I was reading from this psychologist, I forget his name, but it was in the Yale Medicine Magazine, or Yale Magazine Medicine, I don't know what it's called. But he was talking about how gay men grow up with this distrust of love because of how their parents loved them until they were perceived as feminine or they were perceived as gay. And so there was this non acceptance there. And it was like, I love you about everything except this one thing. So gay men often grow up distrusting love and fearing getting close to people. They fear that emotional intimacy, which often leads them to want to be single, to, really focus on their professional life or having large groups of friends or sexual relationships. And they don't typically want to settle down. And I think that's why gay men probably tend to lead towards that disorganized attachment. And again, it relates to that trust, that mistrust of love. What's the process that you would work with someone to uncover where they fall within these attachment theories? Yeah. We start by looking at what it is that they're missing in a relationship. So everyone comes in, they're like, Oh I want more closeness. I want more intimacy, better communication. And we start understanding what's stopping you from doing that? And everyone has these self sabotaging behaviors, which are really there for protection. I like to call them self protection behaviors and that really disrupts their ability to connect authentically with their partners. Yeah. And so as we start looking at those behaviors, we find that they typically fall into one of these categories. And once we can identify that, we can take a look at their past and help them to feel empowered and realize, Oh, I get why I do this now. I'm pushing people away because I've always had to be independent. I've always had to grow up on my own and take care of myself. And so I'm doing the same thing to my partner. And when you realize that it's just a habit, a behavior for safety and to protect you, you feel more empowered to make a different choice moving forward in your relationship. And that gives you more of the conscious empowerment of how to make that relationship what you want. I think it's interesting because in last or a couple of weeks ago, conversation with a lot of our therapist guest. She talked a lot about reframing and, having conversations to reframe the situation or reframe the internal conversation that you're having. And I think that says a lot about what we need to do, because if you have two people coming into this relationship that are both having separate and individual conversations within their own attachment theory, it's a wonder we even get past hello. And can I buy you a cup of coffee? Do you know what I mean? It's a lot to process. But there, there's something that you said in your post on Instagram about your love languages. And you've touched on this with every example you gave of a particular attachment theory was this kind of vulnerable communication. It all, to me, always comes back to that. Are we communicating? Are we being open? Are we showing our vulnerability? And I think there's nothing more beautiful than people sharing that vulnerability. It's not easy, by any stretch of the imagination, to be vulnerable in front of someone, especially in the beginning. You don't want to give too much away. You don't want to share too much. And is it going to run past the quick three minute first date we're supposed to have if I show a little bit of vulnerability? So there's a lot to manage, right? But I think it's so important to hold that space for yourself that you can be at any time vulnerable and communicate. another love language that you posted, which I think we'll talk about at length another time is this concept of surrender. We've got a little bit of time left, but I think the surrender part is really important as well. I've had to do a lot of that this last year is just surrender a lot and acknowledge and thank my brain for sharing a lot and blessing it and releasing it. Other words, surrendering and really looking at what's important to me in this next stage of my life. What's important to my relationship. What's important to the other person is something that's really become an ongoing conversation. And go back and identify an assignment that I had to do last year. And I put myself back in the dating world was, to write out that list of everything that you were looking for, every single thing that you were looking for in your next partner. And the list was pretty. long and pretty descriptive. And the homework assignment was to read this thing every night before you went to bed to manifest this person. And it was so eye opening because I found that list about a week ago after you and I talked about doing this episode and after my conversation with Andrew. And I thought that is the most unobtainable list. I've ever seen in my entire life. And it's no wonder I'm still single because I'm not sure that person exists in the world today. So I had to surrender that list and say, what I'm open to is this, what I'm looking for is this, what I'm most. excited about sharing with someone is this, and it's similar to your love languages piece, which I love, seeing the best in each other, laughter, stargazing, you even mentioned, those are the things that I think are the most empowering and powerful as we look at what's next in this relationship. What I find fascinating though, as we delve into this next level of conversations, is that once you identify after working with someone, these attachment theory, and we're. Becoming more aware of which category we fall into and how we use that or how we don't use that or how it benefits or it doesn't benefit us. We then have to then navigate what I've been using this term dumpster fire of trying to meet that person. I'm curious, given your experience and like I said, If I didn't mean to out you a single, but we're both out in this dating world, what are some of the resources that you look to, to meet people these days? Is it online? Is it in person? Is it through the work that you do? What is it? Cause I'm curious for somebody who plays in this conversation with their clients and in their world, is it any different? than someone from me, let's say, who's sitting out on the other side, wondering where these people are. I wish it were, I wish it were different for me, but I'm afraid I'm in the same dumpster fire of garbage. No, I'm kidding. It's not that bad. So I am on the dating apps dating app and try to just have one at a time. Cause then it gets confusing. I find Tinder and Hinge are usually the better apps for meeting guys that are interested in the same types of relationships that I'm looking for who want committed long term relationships. So I've gone on dates, I chat I try to respond as much as possible on those apps. Yet I find I have better luck in person. I think I'm I'm just the kind of person who really just feels an energetic connection with someone. Like I know right off the bat whether I'm interested or you in or not when we're in person, but over text conversation on the apps it's much harder to gauge that. I think going to just different networking events, hanging out with friends and friends of friends and meeting their friends is really a better way for me that feels more productive, but I wouldn't discount any way to meet someone. I think there's a study recently that people who meet online, their marriages actually last longer. So there's some, Great data to show that it's an effective way of meeting people and finding a quality person who's going to match what you want. So I wouldn't discount it. I would say just get yourself out there, anything that works for you, anything that you're going to enjoy doing. If you enjoy the apps and those dating, those dating apps, go do it. If you enjoy networking and going to different groups, go do that. If you enjoy hanging out with friends and going to brunch every Sunday, meeting new people there, do that. But as long as you're getting out and doing something, yeah, that's good. That's good enough. Walking our dogs in the park after brunch. It's interesting as I started this podcast back in February, have made a point to connect live. And what I mean by that is, is that I, if I need to communicate with someone or ask them to join the podcast or go to lunch or dinner or brunch, I'm Making a point. It's still taking effort on my part, but I'm making a point to pick up the phone and call them and to have a conversation. And I'm trying that on the dating app, which is really interesting because a lot of that initial communication back and forth is on the app. It's this kind of Q and a period. And I like hinge. I'm obviously not sponsored by them for this podcast. Yet, but I think it's a great app because I love the fact that you can see multiple pictures. You can also record your voice in responses to some questions. And I like the structure in which they've set that up. What's interesting is I've said to several people who have approached me in the last couple of weeks, Hey, this is great. Let's take this to a call. Here's my number. Will you call me? And we can chat a little bit more. And it's super interesting to see. The percentage of responses that actually will call you and what's so interesting and I could probably give a lot of statistics is the demographics of the people that are on the dating app that are 50 and over will pick up the phone instantly and call the ones that are under 50. Refuse to call and simply text. And I just find That's a millennial's worst nightmare, Eric. It's a millennial's worst nightmare, and I get that. And it's, but it's so interesting to me because it'll be like instant phone call. Like I'll send my number and it's boom, the phone's ringing. And on the ones that are under 40, it's just not happening. And so it's just Fascinating to me that we live in now in this world that we do with all of this online dating app I was laughing this morning because I was flipping through and I said, if I ever decide to change careers, I want to become the coach to people on their dating apps. That has you. Select the right photos, but with the basis of, if you're going to post a profile photo of yourself in your room, clean it first, please. And if you're going to take a selfie in front of the bathroom mirror, lean that to just be cautious and aware. Of what you're putting out into the universe. So that's my little dating tip. One on one as we start to wrap up this conversation, I got to throw another one in there. What about the only have pictures and with sunglasses and I don't know what your eyes look like. I'm like, I can't. Can't swipe right on that. And then we could take that one step further. And I get an anonymity. I understand that. And I understand that there are certain cases that you need to be on that. But I am less likely to talk to you if you have a picture of your left shoulder. Then I do. If your face or the dog at the beach, do you know what I'm saying? I'm all about that, but I'm like you, I need to connect with that eye to eye contact. Even if it's a photograph, it's so important. You and I could go into business together. We could just help all these people, right? Just all these people get. Not that picture. Not that one. Next. Next. Nope. Next. Next. Nope. Nope. Yeah. Nathan, this was great. Thank you so much for giving us this glimpse into the conversation of attachment theories. And I think, again, it's given me a lot to think about. I really appreciate it. Definitely want to delve more into this conversation to look at all those areas for myself personally, and to be able to identify, I think that's going to be really key and critical. And I'm super grateful for you taking the time to talk about that and also to come on and talk a little bit about the love languages conversation. I encourage our listeners, if you are interested in that, Nathan did an amazing podcast interview on NPR. It's posted on his. Instagram page. I'm going to ask him to let us know where we can find him, but go take a look, flip through some of the posts, take a look at some of the conversations that Nathan has. I think you will find them super interesting and very empowering and very impactful. So Nathan, thank you for being here today. Again, I appreciate your time. How do folks find you on Instagram? Yeah, you can find me at Nathan underscore Serato on Instagram and yeah, or Nathan Serato dot com. And if you want to learn more about communication, tools and challenges, I've got some regular classes that I have up there. So come check them out. Definitely check out those classes. They're awesome. So Nathan, thank you again for being here. Yep. Thank you. Bye everybody. All right, everyone. Thank you again for joining us on today's episode. I hope our conversation resonated with you like it did me, and I cannot wait to sit down with you all again next week. Remember to subscribe to the Just You Podcast on your favorite platform so you can make sure not to miss a new episode, which drop every Thursday. If you like what you hear, you can easily share the podcast and episode Directly with your friends. And if you would rate us and leave us a review, we'd love to hear from you. You can also follow us on Instagram at just do you pod. As you go out into the world today, remember to just do you. All right. Talk next week.