S1E39 Bryan Stanton - Teacher of the Year ... While Queer

Join me this week as I sit down with Bryan Stanton,  an award winning visionary in theatre education based in the Bronx, New York, who is dedicated to creating dynamic and impactful learning experiences for educators and students alike.

During our time together he shares about his own personal journey to finding his authenticity AND voice, and how he is committed to living a powerful, out and proud life as an educator, singer, actor, Queer Theorist ... AND an amazing dad to his 4 children.  Given the current climate in our country with teachers and students alike under attack, Bryan is a change-maker out to make a difference for our LGBTQ+ educators and students around the globe.   

Bryan currently serves as the Performing Arts Technical Manager at City College Center for the Arts where he also teaches Theatre Production and Design as an Adjunct Professor.  Bryan loves his work as a consultant and educator and collaborates with schools, regional theatres, and individuals to create inclusive and accessible technical theatre programs. 

In addition to his teaching role, Bryan is the creator and host of the popular Teaching While Queer podcast and leads their community based platform as Board Chair, championing the voices of queer educators and fostering connection worldwide.  

To learn more about Teaching While Queer and to listen in on on Bryan's Podcast, visit: https://www.teachingwhilequeer.org

Thank you for joining us and we can't wait to welcome you back again next week! New episodes drop every Thursday and can be found wherever you find your favorite podcasts!  

Remember to like, rate, share and subscribe to the JUST DO YOU. podcast in order to receive our weekly episode updates!  If you like what you hear, please leave us a review at Apple Podcasts!

To follow us on Instagram, visit: https://www.instagram.com/justdoyoupod/

Want to learn more about our host, Eric Nicoll?  Visit:  https://ericnicoll.com

Transcript

0:05

Hello, everyone. Welcome to the JUSTDOYOU. Podcast. My name is Eric Nicoll and I'm your host. If you are a first time listener, welcome to the conversation. And if you're a regular, I'm honored that you've decided to join me for another episode. The JUSTDOYOU. Podcast is centered around a network of conversations, which are meant to connect us, to inspire https: otter. ai And who knows? We might even learn a little something new that ultimately allows us to live in the sweet spot that I like to call the just you, you space it being. Each week I have the privilege of sitting down for unscripted conversations with friends, family, colleagues, community leaders, and influencers that all share their own personal journeys. I hope that you enjoy our time together as much as I have. We are certainly gonna laugh, and yes, we might even cry a little, but in the end, we're gonna know that we're not alone during our life's journey. So, are you ready? Great, let's do this. Welcome to The Conversation. All right, everyone. Welcome to today's episode. I'm going to jump right in because there is a lot to unpack with our guest today. I am really excited to introduce everyone to Brian Stanton. Hi, Brian. Hi, how are you doing? I'm great. I'm great. Thank you so much for taking the time to sit down with me, especially on this holiday weekend. We just all celebrated Thanksgiving yesterday and what a great way to start the weekend to sit down and have a conversation with you. I appreciate you being here. Oh, it's my pleasure. Honestly. Thanks for having me. Of course. Well, like I said, there's a lot to unpack and I'm going to just read a little bit of your bio which I think will set the tone for the conversation. And then I have a few questions that I'd like to ask you and we'll just take it from there. So how about that? Sounds great. Cool. So, for everyone that is meeting Brian today for the first time, it's Brian Stanton. His pronouns are he, they. Brian is a father, as well as a theater pedagogue, and I admitted to him before we hit record that I actually had to look up the definition of what that meant, so thank you for teaching me something new. But you're also a technical director, a non profit director, and a fellow podcast host. So what I loved about your bio, Brian, is It's very diverse in its content, but important. So this says you're a pioneering force in theater education with extensive experience and a deep commitment to enhancing learning environments for both teachers and students. You're currently the performing arts technical manager at a city college for the arts in New York correct. It's City College, New York. And you're an adjunct professor specializing in theater production and design. You partner with schools and regional theaters and individuals to develop inclusive and accessible technical theater programs. You were also, and what caught my attention when we first connected is that you are a. are the creator and the host of teaching while queer, which is approaching its hundredth episode next week. Congratulations again on that. And I love this because what you're doing is, creating a community that's dedicated to supporting and amplifying voices of queer educators while fostering a strong sense of community and to provide a safe space for these educators to really live and work. Through their authentic selves. And as this podcast is designed, the just do you podcast, we are centered around conversations that are there to empower us to live our authentic lives. So there could be no better way to sit and have a conversation with you. So. Welcome again. And let's get started. I have a couple of questions for you. First of all where were you born? Where'd you grow up? Sure. So I was born in La Mirada, California which is a suburb of LA and I grew up in a Whittier. Our claim to fame is orange groves and Richard Nixon went to Whittier high school. I did not they were my rival as it were. And then when I went to college, I moved down to San Diego and after that headed to Texas and now New York. Okay. And did you go to university of Idaho? Did I read that as well in your bio? I did not physically go to school in Idaho. University of Idaho is pioneering. I say pioneering because it really is a. An engaging environment, but they're pioneering arts programs that are virtual. So I received a master's of fine arts in theater pedagogy, which is the study of education and educational processes. I received my master's fine arts virtually. So I was in synchronous classes, working on projects and research with folks in those classes, but then also taking the work that I did in the classroom. And then. Bringing it to my graduate program as projects for school where I then reevaluated how I show up in the classroom through the lens of whatever I was learning in class. Got it. Did you know at that young age when you were growing up in Southern California, did you know you were going to go into theater and ultimately teaching? Did you have that concept or what was that young Brian like? So young Brian definitely knew he was going to be a teacher one day. But had a horrible experience with a high school choir director who was like, you can sing acting. And as a young 17 year old, I did not understand that I should go to college to get better at the things that I am not as great at. And so I ended up going to degree to school to The music teacher hated the music education classes. So I transferred to just being a music performance major and I sang my way through undergrad. When it got out of it, I started doing all this theater work, even though that's what I wanted to be doing in the first place. So when I moved to Texas, I found out that you can get a credential Take classes online and then take some physical tests and then get a teaching credential in California. It requires an additional year of college that I couldn't pay for because I had adopted children. So I was able to become a teacher in Texas because of this alternative certification program. And that has kind of set my life in a different direction and in the direction that I always wanted it to go anyway. Yeah. Right. So I'm curious with this. teacher who made a comment to you at 17, you know, you can sing, but you can't act. What did that feel like? What did that do to you in that moment? Did it shut you down? Or as you said, you obviously became very successful, but in that moment, what was that like? So I'm gonna be honest in that I don't remember that specific moment, but I know that it was impacting enough that. When I finished my degree in voice performance and started then working in theater and realizing that's what I wanted to do all along. That moment stuck out as the point where I chose to study music because that teacher said that that's what I should do, which was really steering me in a direction that he wanted me to go and that I didn't want to go in. But I was so young at the time that I was taking the advice of my mentor. When I should have also reflected more upon what I wanted versus what they said, because in the end that mentor also was. homophobic and all these other things that like now we don't communicate because there are other things in play there but it wasn't really about my best interest more so he was like you can do this well and because you could do that well that'll look good on me if that makes sense oh it does it does It does for a couple of reasons, specifically, I might have shared with you when we did our onboarding call was when I was in elementary school, I loved to color and I wanted to go into architecture or interior design. I always loved helping my grandmother. wasn't quite sure of coming out at that point, but I knew that there was some interior design sense in me. But I remember being in a class and a teacher saying to me that I would never be an artist because I was colorblind. I was diagnosed very early on in my adolescence as being colorblind. Back then, That conversation shut me down. There was teasing, there were comments from the teacher, and I remember succinctly the moment in which I said, Oh, I'll never be good at anything because I'm not good at coloring. You know, I color things funny or different. And I look at that moment as a very defining moment in my career, as it went through elementary school and high school and ultimately college. And into my career was that I didn't really follow the things, although interestingly enough, I wasn't in interior design. I wasn't in architecture, but I did become an event producer, which produced events that had a lot of. Obviously creativity and color and design. I just hired all the right people to make sure that that color was correct. So there was, there was that moment, but that teacher really did shape, you know, a lot of my thoughts and feelings about myself so I can understand. That's why I was, I was much younger. I was, you know, obviously in second grade, not 17. Well, good for you for then kind of taking that conversation and doing something, which really leads us into the meat of this conversation today, obviously as a queer educator and as the creator and host of this podcast teaching while queer, I was really taken by many of the topics that you tackle as this podcast host. And I wondered if you would just share with us a little bit about how that podcast came to be. Why is it important to you? Why is it important to other educators, to the schools, and to the students and parents? I think there's a lot to say there, especially given this current climate that we're in, what we've been through the last couple of years with the attack on our students and, you know, our teachers as well. So do you mind letting us know how this all started? Yeah, no problem. I actually just shared a reel on Instagram with this because I don't think a lot of people were a hundred episode in, right? Nobody's going back to listen to episode one. And so I was teaching in Texas. And almost immediately was dealing with anti queer microaggressions. And the first one was about a month into my first year teaching, and a student and parent came into the principal's office screaming about how I was discriminating against heterosexual males. And the reason I was discriminating against heterosexual males was for existing as a queer person and not letting them use derogatory language against each other. In my classroom space, like I wouldn't allow it. And it doesn't matter what the derogatory language is. I just am not going to let you use it in my class. And so my principal was like, well, maybe you shouldn't come out to your students so quickly. It's a very conservative neighborhood. And I said, well, my children go here. They have two dads. They're not going to lie because I asked them to and I'm not going to ask them to I am unapologetically me and I will continue to be unapologetically me and if the community has a problem with that, then we will have a problem. I didn't go back into the closet, but I did know that that conversation impacted me and it took me about two years to realize that. Because what happened was I would prepare my back to school speeches for back to school night and I would prepare my little presentation about me and all of a sudden my husband and kids had disappeared from the presentation. And I didn't realize it until a couple of years later, and then I put them back in and was like, you know, F that I'm not going to deal with that kind of. thing impacting me in that way. And over the course of the next few years, I dealt with small microaggressions. I dealt with my morality being questioned. I did a play or a musical based off of the Stephen King novel, Carrie. And was then subjected to a form that no other teacher in the history of the school had to complete that basically said, I wouldn't put nudity or sex on stage when I didn't. What they didn't like about the play is it showed realistic bullying with students using derogatory terms at each other. But I also partnered with a nonprofit organization and raised almost 2, 000 for that organization through the message that we were spreading about cyberbullying and how, and the resources that are available to prevent cyberbullying from happening. The good apparently did not outweigh one person complaining, one administrator being present and not liking the words. This person who complained never saw the play. Almost 2000 people saw the play. But all those people who saw it, It didn't matter because these two people had a complaint. So then I was told that I had to fill out forms about morality. Then because of that philanthropic work where I partner with. Nonprofit organizations and I'm creating real world change. My students had to do the research for all of our plays to find a nonprofit that was local or international to partner with where we would either donate supplies or we would raise funds for them. And it connects to the theme of the play. So we did the play Puffs, which is a Harry Potter parody. And we. donated mascara wands that had been cleaned to wands for wildlife in Appalachia. And they use them to clean animals that are impacted by oil spills. So we tied, you know, magic wands. Mascara wands, tied it together, do philanthropic work. At the same time, I was doing work with Universal Design for Learning, though I didn't know that until I finished graduate school, where I was making theater inclusive for students with disabilities. We were doing full on theatrical productions where they were handling lights and sound, and they were also performing on stage, partnered with peers who were able bodied And so those two things combined, I became the teacher of the year, which put a spotlight on me. And I was teacher of the year for the district. I won some more accolades. I competed at the regional level for teacher of the year for the state of Texas, competed at the state level for teacher of the year, didn't pass the region and state levels. And in my speeches that I gave, I talk about my coming out story because It kind of happened at school. Someone outed me. And the most important thing that happened in that week was that my band director checked on me and all she asked was, how was I doing and if I was okay. And my message was, That after COVID, what your students need to know is that you care about them and doing all this work and having the spotlight on me. I had a principal come in to tell me that I was doing pronouns wrong. She didn't understand why I had to ask them the way that I was asking them, which was on a form or giving people the option to share them out loud. Which is what you're supposed to do. always make it optional. And she told me that I was running the risk of outing students the way that I was outed. She used my own story against me. And then she explained that like her 17 year old son doesn't understand why we have to ask pronouns because why does he have to explain that he's a boy? And I said, that's so interesting because trans boys think exactly the same thing. And then, school board elections were happening, and the school board had one person running who was saying things very loudly in private meetings, thinking that they would not get back to the rest of the community, and those things were, I'm running on the campaign of getting that faggot out of our school. And so, I gave it a year, I finished out my reign as teacher of the year, as it were. And because I didn't have a place to share the story, I said, if there's no space for these kinds of stories to be shared in a year, I'm going to create it. The same week that I put in my resignation at that school and moved to a different school, I recorded my first episode, explaining all the things that I just talked about including my own outing when I was a teenager. And from there, I've been entering, interviewing educators from around the world. And over time, I put feelers out to people who had been on the podcast to say, would you be interested in joining me in this effort? And it's subsequently not just a podcast. Earlier this year, it became an official like national nonprofit organization to support queer educators because queer educators are talked about a lot, especially in the media. We are called vile things. We are made to be less than human when really. We're just humans. We are told that we're indoctrinating people by having a flag. Most of us don't have the flags up in our classes. Most of us just have a picture of our spouse. And even that people are telling us that we should take down despite the fact that I go into classrooms of heterosexual teachers and they have their entire family history on the wall. Or some people are having gender reveal parties in classrooms or some people are having marriage proposals in classrooms, but it's okay because they're straight. As soon as it's a queer person, it becomes problematic to just live your life. And so teaching while queer kind of evolved from all the necessity of talking to these people. And my goal is to make sure that we're, our voice is always included, especially when people are trying to silence us or speak for us. Yeah, the amount of pressure that teachers must feel around the world. It's not just something here in the US, but must feel to not only be given the responsibility to educate students. You are in a position as a caregiver throughout those hours, while these kids are in your care and the amount of pressure to. care for them, to make sure they're nurtured, to make sure they're educated is, is palpable and beyond, I think, a lot of our comprehension, especially these days with the amount of misinformation and the amount of hate that comes at not only the educators, but also the students who are also just trying to live their lives. And I stand in such gratitude and honor of you and all the educators around the world that are having to face these conversations, because it's, it's, it's gotta come from a place of passion that you're spending your days teaching students, because let's face it, that's a tough job. No matter what grade you're teaching, it's a tough job. It's tough because you're not only dealing with one student you're dealing with sometimes, 50 students in a classroom, depending on where you live. You're dealing with all of those different emotions, all the different demographics, everything is different. And so I sit back and think, how do you do it? Number one. And number two, why, if there is that much pressure, what is the driving force behind pushing through all of that heaviness? To to stay an educator because I don't think you receive The type of acknowledgement that you need to receive for doing what you do. I mean, that's accurate We got this whole, you know month or two of being a hero without a cape during covid but after that like Yeah, we became the villains And it's interesting because it's almost like during that time, we were actively teaching in spaces where parents could hear us. No one was doing anything out of the ordinary. We were all just teaching, right? We're not, we're not having conversations about gender and sexuality in our classes, unless it's a class that talks about gender and sexuality. And yet, for some reason, after coming out of that, this whole indoctrination and the perils of public education and that we are demonizing things came to the mainstream and I think what drives me crazy the most is not one damn person went into a classroom to see what's actually happening. No, they're just watching the news, right? They're not going to, and I don't think they will, Brian. And that's the, that's the conversation that I think really needs to be had. And, you know, I gave a lot of thought to this as I've I've been doing my research for this podcast and I, I refer to it a lot, especially with social media. I call them bandwagon jumpers. And I asked the question, did you actually have that thought that you just put out there or did the thought think you, meaning did you actually go through the process of having that thought? Or did you just jump onto somebody else's conversation about indoctrination or about the demonization of what we're doing and just by being who we are. And you said something really interesting earlier, and I want our listeners to really let that sink in is that the way that this is being portrayed is that conversations are being had by educators to students that are trying to convince them to be one way or the other. And you said this so perfectly that you just want to hang the damn picture of your husband and your four kids in that classroom, just like everybody else does. And by virtue of being gay, LGBTQ part of the community and having a photo, you are automatically the villain and the bad guy. And that's the part that I think drives this bandwagon jumping effort by. Very loud people that want to try to make a point and you, you said it. Not one of those people has sat in on your class or these other educators classrooms to hear what you're saying. And that's the part that I can apply to every guest that I've had on this podcast over the last year, the ones that are anti trans, have you ever had a trans conversation with a trans person? The drag queens. Have you ever sat down and had a conversation with drag queen? So with this podcast and with this global platform, what is your hope for the shift in the conversation, the shift in the paradigm? Because if we can't get people to have their own thought, what's The practice to get them to stop and say, Oh, hold on a minute. Maybe I do need to rethink this. Is that the goal or is the goal just to keep having these beautiful conversations with these educators to just have it live in the space of being out? So my goal isn't to address all of the ignorant people of the world. My goal is to work within systems to build policies and advocate for policies that are supportive of queer people, including educators. And I think that's something that people need to get through their brains, is that, When you are an educator, the classroom, the school is your workplace. The rights that other employees have In their workplace also exist for educators. We are not some sort of special off brand citizen who suddenly gives up their rights because of the fact that we became an educator and that's the thing that I'm trying to really advocate for is an understanding that just because we're teachers doesn't mean that we lose workplace protections. Doesn't mean that we lose the right to refusal of service. Doesn't mean that we lose all of these things just because we're in education. It has to work in all capacities to create inclusivity. It's not just about students. And there's a huge focus on students, which I love and appreciate. And I, I love how many queer kids are out and proud in schools nowadays. That being said, their educators aren't as out and aren't as proud. I was working at a high school. There were two of us who were like out and pretty, pretty loud about it. And then another four that didn't really mention it to anybody, except for we all knew amongst each other. And so it's like, we're living in this idea where as a queer educator, the space, whereas a queer educator, you're still expected to be in the closet, even though it's now, okay. For your students to be out of the closet and that I'm going to be very blunt. Comes from all sides. It comes from parents. It comes from students and it comes from administration because I've had students who have flat out told me that they, they're frustrated that I share with them when I'm having an emotional experience or emotional reaction to stuff that they're doing that relates to me. And I'm like, well, I'm a human being. You don't get to separate me into some sort of robot. that is a teacher and has no emotions. I am showing you how you as an adult can effectively process your emotions without being a total jerk because you as a teenager don't know how to process your emotions that same way. But. There is this pressure that happens from all sides. That's kind of ganging up on educators and then marginalized educators specifically, because not only do we have people coming at us from all sides, we're also expected to hold the banner to save the children of that marginalized community. What's the word for that? Tokenism. Tokenism. There you go. I was trying to find that word. Yeah, it's, that's insane. That's insane. And this is not, obviously, your focus is within the LGBTQ or queer community of educators. But this can be applied to any marginalized educator or student. This isn't just a conversation specific to us. And I think that's the thing we're starting to see now, especially through this last election and through the conversation that's happening around us is, you know, we just think, oh, they're just coming for us. No, it's everyone that is marginalized. And so. To be able to have a platform and a stance with I'm telling you, I listened to some of your podcast episodes and literally brought tears to my eyes. These. Educators who simply have a passion for education, a passion to teach and to make a difference in the lives of these students to create leaders in our world. You can tell that I'm a product of a teacher. My mom was a teacher for 32 years, so I can say that I could feel it. I could sense it. But you could also sense this palpable sadness and fear for being themselves in the space to where you set it. They just have to be this robot to regurgitate information that's from a lesson plan or a textbook. And I live in a world where I want, I don't have children. If I did, I would want them to come out of their school experience, having a very well rounded education and experience. And I didn't, I was very slanted. I grew up in a very affluent, predominantly. White neighborhood. I had to be educated by my family, by my mom and my grandparents who made sure that I understood, and that I knew that there were other cultures out there. My family is very well traveled that there were other people, other than just who lived in our little town of my little town suburb of Los Angeles. But I credit my mom for that. Not everyone has that opportunity to be able to see it in that one of the ones that caught me in particular was you were talking about common misconceptions about intersex identity and how we have to change the conversation with an administration. So do you find that being faced with this? challenge now of living your authentic self, being an educator, and having to navigate the conversation of the parents and having to navigate the conversation of the students and also the administration. Does it seem doable? Does it seem like there's a way to do it effectively to make change? I'm curious what your thoughts are. I mean, the reality of the situation is whether or not it's doable or not, it's required. We, we are doing it as queer educators. We are balancing these conversations and dealing with these controversies, whether they are real or perceived on a daily basis. So whether or not I feel like it's doable or not, it is a reality of the world that we live in. And so it's doable because we have to. Yeah. What's the easier change or shift in paradigm? Is it administration, students, or parents? What's going to be, well, the easiest shift is students, students are, are rarely the problem. My experience, there was one student, right. That I had mentioned, I had other students who, you know, complained about the humanity of me, but it wasn't from a queer perspective. It was just like, they're not used to adults actually sharing their emotions with them and how they impact which is a learning experience. I had one experience where it was an anti queer experience with a. With a student. Students are rarely the problem for teachers. Parents are 90 percent of the problem. And because parents are 90 percent of the problem, administration feels like they have to cater to parents. There's also this underlying current that because I pay taxes and those taxes support public education, that I pay your bills when really like 50 cents of your taxes go to my paycheck. And. people really thrive on that idea that it really should be treated like public schools. That is what concerns me about some of the proposed changes is this idea of taking money from public schools so that people can have more choice and like put their tax money into private schools and whatnot. But. Where does that leave everybody else? Right. And why, why should you, why should you pay? Like, why should your taxes pay for your, your private school education? Why should your taxes pay for church or, you know, any kind of, you know, Catholic school or Christian school or any kind of school, that's a denominational factor. Public education is meant to be public. For everyone. Tax dollars are meant to be used on the public. This is a big concern and a big conversation that's going to be very interesting to watch what happens as we go through this next, however long we're going to have to endure this. I think we're going to have to keep a close eye on this. I want to shift. To another question that I had, what are some of your most favorite moments of your podcast with your educators from around the world? Well, honestly, my favorite thing about connecting is learning. I learn something every time I talk to someone, which is why I love podcasting so much. One of my favorite experiences actually is a negative to some extent. I had to take down an episode in July because or in August because a person was on a podcast and their school board member was a Moms of Liberty member as well. The Moms of Liberty are innately anti queer and they basically threatened her and forced her to resign. We took the podcast down to try to prevent that from happening. The reason this is a positive is because a month later, she sent me an email saying, I apologize. I haven't been able to check in with you, but I got a job at a different school. I'm getting paid 20, 000 more. And they have me leading the, the DEI initiative when it comes to queer students. On our campus. And I was like, and she's like, I wouldn't have been able to do that without your support during that trying time, because I was on the phone with her talking about how you get ready for that meeting with your principal, that they're literally telling you the minimum of information to make you scared and make you feel like you did something wrong, but you didn't do anything wrong. You didn't violate any policies by being on a podcast, they can claim social media policy, but. Podcasting is not social media. They're not allowed to silence your voice. Correct. I love that she was able to, and this is a proof of point that she was living her authentic life. And we are often faced with tough decisions. We're faced with circumstances beyond our control. And in the moment they look dire in the moment that they are Insurmountable. But if you stand in that space of just doing you, being yourself, being your authentic self, and you go out and live that every day, the right opportunities will come to you. You just have to be open. So kudos to her for being able to see past that. That's awesome. But it's because of you and you need to be acknowledged again, that there, I would think that there's not a lot of other that I know of, and maybe there are opportunities or platforms, for educators to come together and say, Hey, this is my experience. This is what I'm struggling with, or this is what's happened. And so to have that for these queer educators, I think is so, so important. Do you find that being a queer educator, in schools, does it provide an opportunity for students that may be questioning their sexuality or dealing with the coming out process? Do you find that that your being out provides them that safe space that they don't have anywhere else in their lives? I would say yes. Absolutely that even if they don't come to me. I, I can say for a fact that when people found out that I was leaving the first school that I was teaching at, I had been there for four years. I'd really transformed the energy when it came to queerness on campus, but the same time it created a target for on me. When I left, I had parents email me whose kids went to the middle school. I was teaching at the high school and they said that their kid felt. Like they could be themselves at their school, the middle school, because they knew that I was there at the high school doing all this advocacy work. And they knew that I made appearances at the middle school to assist with the theater department stuff that was happening. It was a small district, so it was, you know, two elementary schools, a middle school and a high school. We all work together and because I was so involved and so in the spotlight, I, I was able to shine my spotlight farther in the district because it was such a small district. Yeah, I've got questions just flying into my head. So I'm going to ask this one. I'm a little, a little all over the board today, but what do you think is. possible, because if we go back to the parents, which is where the education needs to start to let them know how, let me ask this a different way. Obviously the parents are not given the tools and the education and the language when they're faced with raising a queer child. So we don't teach that in parenting class. So there's that. We also don't teach teachers necessarily, unless they're from the queer community or those other marginalized communities, how to potentially navigate that conversation and, and dealing with students, same thing with administrators. So we don't give them the tools or the languaging. I think we're getting better at it, but I don't think we're there quite yet. So in the education of the parents, because I really believe that it's, you don't know what you don't know. Parents may not know how to deal with the fact that their child is questioning their gender, their identity, their sexuality. Where does this start? How do we start that conversation with parents? Obviously, what you're doing and being your authentic self in school and creating these conversations that may be in the beginning a little difficult and a little challenging, I can't help but think that that's going to at least start the dialogue, but how can we help parents in dealing with this that they face with their own children? Because it's got to start there. It's got to start somewhere. Yeah. I think. That's a loaded question. I know it is. And especially looking at like the next few years. What I would say is that we need more at the moment. I'll say non profit support, because what I want to say is social services. And this is where like, Those folks who want to, you know, abolish or defund the police and reallocate resources in a way that it's less crime and punishment and more social supporting. I'm going to provide services to these different communities that will prevent crime because these services are, are helping to prevent crime in the same way. I would love to see social services being provided to parents in general. That helped with parenting because there aren't parenting classes, unless you plan on adopting from foster care. Which I did. And I was subjected to taking parenting classes that would have been incredibly valuable for anybody who was going to have a kid, but there aren't parenting classes that just like, Oh, you just, you know, your pregnancy test comes out positive. Okay. Well, you need to register for this parenting class that you can get the low down on what's happening. And then you can read books, like what to expect when you're expecting and all of these things, but they're coming from one person's perspective. So. Actually offering that kind of training when people are becoming parents and making that stuff either affordable or non profits being able to provide it for free through funding that comes in from grants or donations or whatever that is. Having those resources would be invaluable just on parenting in general. And then you add the class on there. That's like how to have conversations with my child about gender and sexuality, because the problem is I was raised by parents who didn't want to talk about gender or sexuality in the sense that like, we don't talk about sex because sex is taboo. And if we talk about it, my kid's going to want to have sex. Well, guess what? I was having sex anyway. Anyway. Yeah. Yeah. And, and so it's like, And this is the funny part, right? Like people are always worried about their kids with like drugs and alcohol when they're teenagers, when really, if we were having more realistic conversations about sex, we could prevent a lot of problems that come down the road. But how do we have those conversations? And it doesn't have to be centered on queerness. It could just be, how do I have a conversation? Like the same class is, how does my, how does a single dad talk to his daughter about Using tampons or pads and, and what is happening when she has her period for the first time? How does a mom talk to her son about masturbation? How does a dad talk to his daughter about masturbation? Like, these are things that. Theoretically should happen because there's a lot of pressure being put on teachers, but at the same time, we're told we're not allowed to teach these things. We're not allowed to teach these things. They're supposed to be things that are learned at home, but the parents don't want to talk about them because they don't know how to provide those supports. Yeah, that was my point. And you said this and I just got the chills thinking about it that in order for you to be a foster parent, I just had a friend go through, they've adopted now to beautiful. But the process that they went through when they were being considered as foster parents was intense, for lack of a better term, and incredibly stressful. And the questions and the comments and the inquiries were intrusive. To be a foster parent, anybody could just go out and get pregnant and have a baby these days. And so that gave me the chills. And I Never thought about that way. So I hope our listeners heard that because you can, you can learn so much from that process as invasive as it is. But it also, set them up to have a very different relationship with their children. As they raise them there, and they were infants and very young and as they grow, they're going to have very different conversations with those children because of what they went through. So that's something to really think about. And it's going to be interesting to see what happens over the next couple of years with this reallocation. And that's a whole other podcast. I'll leave that one to you as an educator. I'm afraid to go down that rabbit hole, but I'm, hopeful and committed that whatever we face in the future, that there are people like you, there are parents like you, there are educators like you that are out there that are going to continue to have. These difficult conversations and to stand up for what they know will make a difference in the life of that child. And I also want people to walk away from this podcast, simply by virtue of the fact that you are a queer. And an educator does not mean that we want to indoctrinate or recruit. I say we have enough members. I don't necessarily think we need to go out and get more. But I want people to understand that just because we have. Administrators that are, and teachers that are queer does not mean that we're trying to indoctrinate and recruit your children, just like the drag queens that are out there with story time. I have a good friend from Palm Springs and he had story time hour and you could actually see, and they had. Statistical proof of the increase in the reading levels of the children that sat through drag time story hour and not once was there a question or a conversation about sex or about drag or about the gay community. And Bella is just this larger than life, six foot four, beautiful drag queen by night, Brian by day. And I just sat back and I just. Cried for days when we were having this conversation around the fact that we're trying to Recruit these kids through the story time hour and I will say one last thing about that and I said this earlier I hope and wish that everyone that's out in our world that's having these really horrific conversations about a community and about a group of people that they know nothing about. And I'm not just speaking about the LGBTQIA plus community having these vile conversations about other human beings don't really know what they're talking about. Because they haven't spent the time to sit down and have a conversation. I, as part of the LGBT community, learned a tremendous amount about the trans community through a conversation that I had on this very podcast. And I came into the conversation with one interpretation, assumption. I came out the other side. I am absolutely in love with our trans community and will stand in support after that one conversation. And it doesn't have anything to do with. that I am a gay man. It has to do with the fact that I'm a human being and I saw what this person went through. And I also say to a lot of my guests, because the majority of my guests that share their journey from childhood onwards, many, many times thought about some pretty drastic alternatives to living as their only way of dealing with the bullying, with the questioning that they faced. And all of them obviously had a conversation or an, or a opportunity to see something bigger than themselves. And so I want. Our listeners and the parents that are putting so much pressure and so much weight on these kids is to sit down and have a conversation. And if you can't get it from your kids, go somewhere to find it, go to the administrator, go to the social worker, go somewhere, Google it at this point. I don't care, but get educated so that we can all have a conversation about what's best for our kids and what's best for their future. That's my hope. And because we have people like you and organizations like yours, I think that's going to happen. And then it can happen. Absolutely. I think that's one thing like I want to leave people with is that in times of struggle, it may seem like hope is small and dim, but it is so, so powerful and we have to, we have to keep it up. Hope is really hard to kill and it's up to us to keep it alive because hope lives within us. No one could take it away from you. No. Absolutely. But you have to have the place to express that hope. You have to have the place to be able to converse. And it's because, again, of organizations and people like you, that not only the educators, but the students can also express that. I have two last questions for you as we wrap this up. I could talk to you for days as I can, all of my guests, I love these conversations. Where do you see yourself and this organization going in the next five to 10 years? Well, we're starting by having our first virtual conference next year. So our goal is to bring educators together in a virtual space from around the world where we have resources and workshops on supporting queer educators, supporting queer students, how to advocate for appropriate policies. Whatever the climate actually looks like by the time we, by the time we get there, how do we push back and continue to resist? And my goal is that in the next five to 10 years, that grows into physical conferences that we do around the world, physical communities that we help to develop where we have regional chapters of teaching while queer that are ran by people in those areas to provide on the ground support for the people in their community, because What people are trying to do is convince us that the queer educators that are on TV, that are referred to in the media are alone. They're the only ones. Yeah. Yeah. And that is not true. There's many of us and together we can create some real change. There are many of you, that's understatement of the year, there are so many of you, and as a corporate meeting planner, I will help you in any way that I can when you're ready to take that conference, national or global, just, you've got a friend in that corner for you to help you out, because I think it's so important it'd be an honor. And I see it happening as well, and it's very much needed. My last question for you, as we close out this episode, I ask all of my guests, if you could go back to that elementary school, grade school, Brian, what would you tell him about his life today? What I would say is you never saw yourself past high school. You knew you would go to college. You knew you wanted to be a teacher. You knew there were things you wanted to do, but there wasn't really a life for you. It didn't exist. Because you knew that you liked boys, even in second grade, and you have a husband and children, you own a house in New York City own, not rent, and you work at a university doing theater, which is what you absolutely love, and all the things that people said were the problems and the things you should get rid of. And those. effeminate aspects of yourself that, you know, masculinity or toxic masculinity likes to pick on and the things you were bullied about are actually the superpowers to get you where you are. And the more that you own yourself, the easier your life is going to be. I mean, now you live your life with blonde and blue hair, happily wearing obnoxious clothing without a care in the world because what people say, if they don't matter to you, it doesn't matter to you. Couldn't have said it better myself. And might I say, you have a beautiful voice. I listened to some of your reels on your Instagram and you have a beautiful voice. So, Brian, thank you for taking the time to sit down and chat with us a little bit today. I am incredibly grateful. I'm going to put the link to your Teaching While Queer podcast and people can find out information. I encourage people to check it out. I know there's a few educators that are actually listening to us and followers of our podcast. So I am again, incredibly grateful and just thank you. And I just give you so much credit and we'll send you as much of empowerment as I can as you forge this path to providing a space for queer educators to be themselves. It's brilliant. Thanks for being here. Thank you. All right, everyone. Thank you again for joining us on today's episode. I hope our conversation resonated with you like it did me, and I cannot wait to sit down with you all again next week. Remember to subscribe to the Just You Podcast on your favorite platform so you can make sure not to miss a new episode, which drop every Thursday. If you like what you hear, you can easily share the podcast and episode Directly with your friends. And if you would rate us and leave us a review, we'd love to hear from you. You can also follow us on Instagram at just do you pod. As you go out into the world today, remember to just do you. All right. Talk next week.